A question was private messaged to me following up on the "Graphic Designer" Thread and I thought others might benefit from the discussion or feel inclined to share their experience...
The question was for advise on which kind of agency or environment would be a fetile learning ground and entry point to the business.
I had to admit, I was at odds with what to advise. My own history, could probably not be duplicated without a great deal of luck and a time machine. This is not to imply that I did not work very hard to get where I am, but I am the first to admit that I got my start when there were no schools teaching desktop publishing and, in fact my first job was replacing a group of "old school" manual paste-up artists who saw the Mac as a passing fad that would never endanger their carreers.
My start was with a large magazine company, where after a year and a half, the savings made by going digital, allowed the company to consolidate their workforce into a single office and my job in Montreal was surplused...
Thank You very much... Next...
I spent a couple years banging out ads for the local newspaper, and searching for the job that would relocate my life to southern Ontario. That was at a small marketing company, which lasted 3 months and 5 days, before their major client hired a marketing manager with "friends" at another agency... Thank You very much.
As luck would have it, a friend of mine worked at a small ad agency {2 man shop} and they needed a freelancer, so I was laid off on Friday and working on Monday. Thank You VERY, VERY much...
Next I helped another small agency bring their graphics in house and built my first dept. ran great for 4 years til a salesman hire a buddy who thought he could mess with stuff behind my back.
A graphic production house{cog in the wheel position}, another small agency{senior designer} and a couple of years running a printers production/film dept. later and now I'm supervising production at a name agency....
That's my clean version of the story... complete details will cost you a whole lotta beers...
You would have a hard time breaking in like that today, graduating from a program is pretty much mandatory... but as I see it there are choices to be made on where you want to go.
First, do you want to be a concept designer - who plans campaigns and strategies or do you want to actually draw the final art. No judgement on either here, we did enough of that in the last thread, eh...
Concept people have {need} less use for high end skills with the latest software. The idea being more important than fussing with details...
Final art people {design or Production} absolutly need the skills required for building files for final prepress.
Once that choice is made, one must decide to go to a large agency or a small one.
A large agency, has many advantage, you will not be the sole person responsible when things go wrong, {and they will}, you will probably be invisible when things have gone right... ther will be IT and tech people who will solve hardware problems and tell you how they want you to use the software. The down side is you will probably not do very much creative yourself and nothing will be "truley your" that you could claim as such in your portfolio. You will however work on big name client's work and be able to learn from more experienced people.
A small agency, also has advantages and disadvantages. You would likely be the sole person responsible when things go wrong {even if it had nothing to do with you} and the owner or salepeople will try to take credit for your work, but you will likely do everything from start to finish and it will be your work. This to me is a better training ground in the long run. Small agencies pay less, work you harder and expect you to be IT, Designer Production and Prepress all at once.
In a much shorter span of time you will be far more advanced that a designer who cranks out ads at a big agency. Although they will likely make more money at first...
That is as close to a conclusion as I can give, right now, any longer and no one will read it or join in... I was afraid that my tone in the last thread might have seemed too negative... It is a great career, if you don't let stress get to you...
JAMG, thanks for this, in that my son is considering going into graphic design at university...........or computer tech..............or geography/geology. We shall see.
I am amazed at the number of jobs you have held. In the past 28 years I have been here at Memorial University. The changes in technology have only made my teaching more unique. Paix.
__________________
Dr.G.
14" G4 iBook
15" MacBook Pro (July, 2009)
13" MacBooK Pro with Retina Display
Paix
"The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man who can't read these books." Mark Twain
This to me is a better training ground in the long run. Small agencies pay less, work you harder and expect you to be IT, Designer Production and Prepress all at once.
agree completely. i've learned a ton working at my small agency that i know i would never have been exposed to/trusted with at a larger outfit. i've worked with lots of files from big and small agencies, and more often the larger agencies provide files with serious problems, both design wise and technically.
Folks, what do you think about the corporate route? (In house designer somewhere.) In my line of work, I meet a lot of great designers who are the in-house corporate person, but virtually none from the agency side. And on ehMac, everyone seems to be agency. What gives?
As I understand it, pros include: security, well-paying, creative control (sometimes, anyway--you're the final authority on the visuals). Cons include somewhat less variety (you're conveying the same concepts all the time--though it's all yours from concept to print), and lack of a design community at work (no one really knows what you do.)
Am I accurate? Or not?
Just thought I'd through another design route out there, and see where it falls.
First of all, a huge thank you to JAMG for the info and for starting this thread. Another huge thank you to all who reply. As a recent graduate, I'm torn on where to apply to. Personally I was considering the big agency route, mainly because:
1. opportunity to work on projects for larger, well known clients with bigger budgets
2. ability to make connections
3. salary (HUGE amount of OSAP to pay off)
While I agree I would probably learn more overall from a smaller firm, there are a few things that worry me. Is there as much room for advancement? I'm just worried that I could be at a smaller firm for years, yet still be at the junior designer level of responsibility and creative control, simply because there would only be 1 or 2 people other people above me. I don't want "leaving a company" to be my only option for advancement. However I suppose most people stay at their first job for only a couple of years, based on what I've heard.
Also I worry that I may not be able to make connections if working at smaller firms. JUST going through school I've seen how powerful it is to know people. Many students in my program (including myself) were offered wonderful freelance jobs or full time jobs through connections alone. Quite simply, it could potentially be the deciding factor in getting that dream job down the road. Any thoughts on this?
This however, leaves the question of: what about a mid-sized firm? Would they have many of the advantages of both smaller and larger firms?
In case it helps, my goal is to reach the level of Creative Director at a firm that handles large accounts in 7-10 years (after which I might move to editorial, which has always been a love of mine). A lofty goal perhaps, but I'm willing to work towards it. Basically I crave the pressure of heading up big budget accounts. Also I have no interest in working for myself or opening my own firm (not now anyways).
Sorry for so many questions, but I've found this forum to be a great resource for information.
I can relate to the pains of trying to get started
I have worked in 2 small Vinyl sign design companies and i took the heat for learning errors got fired ( fired is a bad term to use it was more of an ask for you to leave) both times Thank you very much!
anyone hiring in the Toronto area? Web or graphics person?
A small firm is 2-5 people where even the lowest peon gets to meet with the boss every now and then.
A medium firm is 6-20 people where even the lowest peon gets see the boss every now and then, but communication is limited to a one-line joke or a pink slip.
A large firm is 21+ people where even the lowest peon gets to read about the boss every now and then, usually when the company reports huge first quarter losses in the newspaper or is thrown in jail for having bilked the company to create those losses.
Seriously, the numbers are about right according to the standard Adobe software registration cards. The references to the bosses are purely realistic based on life experience.
__________________ macandy [pic is me at 6yrs]
iMac 24" G5 3.06GHz Intel Core 2 Duo 4GB/1TB - ohmygawdwhatalovelymac!
MacBook Pro 2.16GHz Intel Core Duo 1GB/60GB
iPhone 3Gs 16GB black
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INHOUSE Productions Ltd.
Design and digital composition
I will add to the graphic design background thread...
My own career started much like JAMG's, right out of college with barely a week of Mac instruction [it WAS 1987 after all]. First Mac Plus I touched, I fried the mother board. Seems the college was devoid of non-static carpetting at the time. Swore I'd never touch a Mac again.
Fast forward a year, and I'm back at same college, teaching this time, because in the interim, they had decided to let these little buggers procreate in the computer lab, and now there were 12 of THEM, and only ONE Wasatch Graphics Design system [high-end full colour slides, but that's ALL it did]. So I taught on that while another instructor taught the Macs. The second Mac I touched brought forth a font menu that made me salivate to no end. I was hooked. I told the PC-based marketing firm I was working at that either they let me out to teach part-time or I would not work full-time. I started teaching. And learning the Mac on my own.
Teaching led to consulting. Consulting led to the larger, more complex design, layout, scanning and prepress projects being thrown my way while I taught the the newbies the basic ropes.
First colour Mac I saw was on the 35th floor of the TD Tower. It sat there with the islands stretched out beyond them in the background. I almost wanted to pay them for me to work there it was so amazing. Great freelance job doing internal communications and marketing materials. I got the job from someone who knew me from when I worked at the very first marketing firm job I had.
Made enough in one year to support a complete MacIIcx system - 2Mb RAM, 20Mb hard drive, 13" colour monitor, and the three main DTP apps - PageMaker, Illustrator and the brand new, v1.0 PhotoShop. $16,000 later and I was all set up on my own.
Started stealing business from a couple of printers, so they got me to do their stuff too. Printers have employees and employees need training, and I did a lot of training in the early 90s. Was even an inhouse DTP specialist for a major computer reseller here in Toronto.
Two people who left the TD Tower communications company went on to two other corporate giants, and took me with them. I did more business in the first six months with one of these contacts than I had in the three years prior with them.
Being flexible is best. If you can not only do the work but help companies with their own staff [sure, it's like shooting your foot off, but it leads to other opportunities]. Isn't there a saying - the best teacher is one who works themself out of their own job? Something like this.
When the economy was bad, and big companies were downsizing, I was overloaded. In more recent years it has gotten to the point that every secretary and their janitor friend could use a Mac. Things got harder.
I always kept ahead of the flock by being really good at the prepress end of things as well. Had one client for whom we quoted $24K on a catalogue tell me they could afford to pay a full-time person for a year to do it. I said, go ahead, and we'll be there to pick up the pieces when their MS Word files won't work on press. Long story short - we're in the middle of said catalogue.
Yes, a fair bit of luck. But also being very flexible. If a client needs a PowerPoint slide presentation, see if you can do it rather than passing it off as beneath you. The next time they need something, it could just very well be the company's annual report. Been there, done that.
OK, gotta go back to sleep now. Er, work. Yeah, that's it.
v v if my signature does not show up below it's because ehmac hates me v v
__________________ macandy [pic is me at 6yrs]
iMac 24" G5 3.06GHz Intel Core 2 Duo 4GB/1TB - ohmygawdwhatalovelymac!
MacBook Pro 2.16GHz Intel Core Duo 1GB/60GB
iPhone 3Gs 16GB black
---------------------------------------------
INHOUSE Productions Ltd.
Design and digital composition
A large firm is 21+ people where even the lowest peon gets to read about the boss every now and then, usually when the company reports huge first quarter losses in the newspaper or is thrown in jail for having bilked the company to create those losses.
Interesting....
Another question, what does everyone think of the whole "working from the bottom, up" method? And I mean REAL bottom, i.e. starting off in the mail room or something. I was just talking to a friend of mine last night who works delivering mail at a major international ad firm... he says the ad execs do nothing but play golf must be nice. Does that approach actually work though? Or does it take obscene amounts of luck?
Graphic Design, Part 2 - How to get started...
Linear Mode
