Farenheit 9/11

MACSPECTRUM

Watched the 1:10 p.m. showing today.
Theatre about 1/3 full and applause after the movie.

The things that Moore shows in the film are going to make neo cons sweat as evidenced by the movement to threaten theaters that show the film.

Some extermely damaging evidence. The neo con agenda is nothing more than pure greed. Billions of dollars.

Some extremely damaging evidence re: how the republicans stole the election. Stuff I didn't even know. And then there is the 2 different views of Bush's military record. Moore was smart enough to get a copy BEFORE he accused Bush of being AWOL and before the black magic marker could delete a certain name.

Bush is shown to be a real idiot. Cheney is nothing but evil.

Excllent film. A must see by all.

U.S. media poll (as reported by CBC National) shows that a majority of Americans believe that Bush was WRONG to invade Iraq.
Bush's reply; "History will be my judge."

"We the people" my ass....

PosterBoy

2 Links of interest:

1st, some interesting commentary on F9/11 by Kottke:

<blockquote>http://www.kottke.org/04/06/fahrenheit-911

Fahrenheit 9/11 is ultimately about Michael Moore's view of the world, which is what makes it so entertaining, pleasing to Moore fans, but also what limits its potential.

During the last half of the movie, I thought more than once about The Fog of War, Errol Morris' excellent documentary on Robert McNamara, and how Morris would have done the film. Or how Andrew Jarecki (Capturing the Friedmans) would have. You certainly can't remove opinion from a documentary, but with Fog and Friedmans, you get a sense of what the filmmakers' opinions are and how they affect the way the story is told. And as with anything in life, you find your own truth in the films based on what you think that bias might be. But Fahrenheit 9/11 is so much about Michael Moore's opinion that it's difficult to go through that process of finding the truth. The frustrating thing is that Moore has a point, but he's unable to get himself out of the way enough to tell us the story so we can make up our own minds about it. One of the charges leveled against Bush -- and probably every other politician in the US -- is that he's constantly putting spin on everything to obscure or manipulate the truth. I can't help but think that Moore is doing exactly the same thing in the opposite direction.</blockquote>

2nd, here is a link to the opinion poll showing that the majority of Americans now believe the war in Iraq to be a mistake:

<blockquote>http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.j...toryID=5511219

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - For the first time since the start of the war in Iraq, a majority of Americans now say the U.S.-led invasion was a mistake, according to a USA Today/CNN/Gallup Poll released on Thursday.

Amid continuing violence in Iraq and questions about the justification for the war, 54 percent of the 1,005 Americans polled said it was a mistake to send U.S. troops into Iraq, compared with 41 percent who held that view three weeks ago.

The findings mark the first time since Vietnam that a majority of Americans has called a major deployment of U.S. forces a mistake, USA Today reported on its Web site.

In addition, the poll found that for the first time a majority also said the war in Iraq has made the United States less safe from terrorism.

Fifty-five percent said the war has increased U.S. vulnerability, compared to a December poll in which 56 percent said the war made the United States safer.

[...]

Despite Americans' changing attitudes toward the war, the poll found Bush in a statistical dead heat with presumptive Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry. Among likely voters, Bush edged out Kerry 48 percent to 47 percent. Three weeks ago, Kerry led 49 percent to 43 percent.

In the new poll, 60 percent of respondents said they believe the Massachusetts Democrat could handle the job of commander-in-chief, but most Americans indicated they trust Bush more in that role, 51 percent to 43 percent.

The survey, conducted Monday through Wednesday, has a margin of error of plus or minus three percentage points. </blockquote>

Some food for thought.

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depmode101

i saw the movie tonight - sold out showing - next two 920 and 1020 shows were also sold out -
applause at the end of the show too.

i think that it was great -
i am surprised that there was no talk of britain being a part of the coalition of the willing -

i suppose he was just trying to keep the focus on america, but i was sure blair was going to get a bigger mention than just his picture being used for a few seconds.

i recommend it highly -
there are a few scenes that are pretty graphic (aftermath of bombing/attacks that took place in iraq)

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PosterBoy

not allowing photos of U.S. flag drpaed [sic] coffins makes a mockery of the soldiers' ultimate sacrifice

Not allowing photos of any fallen soldiers on their way home, tastefully or otherwise, is an old policy, and one that I'm not sure the Army can afford to say "just this one time" to. As poignant as the photos may have been, not cracking down on the photographer could have opened some rather ugly doors.

Only 1 memeber of Congress had a son in the military in Iraq

How many, I wonder, had other family members in Iraq though? I know of at least one that has/had a couple of nephews over there.

Moore's "view of the world" is just that, his view

Isn't it a touch hypocritical to say Bush is bad for distorting the truth, and then turn around and do the same thing to prove his point?

Given that the info he provides isn't exactly hard to come by, shouldn't he be able to present them without forcing his opinion on the viewer and have them come to the same (or a similar) conclusion?

Wouldn't it be more powerful if the viewer forms their own opinions instead of having Moore's shoved in their face?

[/devils advocate]

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MACSPECTRUM

Bush's hypocricy costs people their lives...
800 or so americans and 10,000 or so Iraqis

that's the biggest difference....

Moore's alleged hypocricy cost me $9.35 and I would bet nobody will die as a result of his films

hmto

It's true that it's Moore's point of view but then the same can be said of the opposite. Anyone can do their own documentary to cast a more positive light on what this administration has done and are doing. So far no one has stepped up...

MACSPECTRUM

the reality of war is that it is a grisly business
not allowing photos of U.S. flag drpaed coffins makes a mockery of the soldiers' ultimate sacrifice

shame on BushCo.
Moore's "view of the world" is just that, his view
He makes money from it and gets good press and notoriety

Republicans send people to die for money. Only 1 memeber of Congress had a son in the military in Iraq. Let the less well off to fight and die for those that are better off. Shame.

Which is the greater evil? Moore or BushCo.?

MACSPECTRUM

Mark Fiore and his biting commentary.

http://www.markfiore.com/animation/favorite.html

VertiGoGo

Aside from the "Moore is pushing his opinion on us" point of view, I think the real issue here is that Moore is not the only one in America (or the world for that matter) that holds this opinion...which is given little airtime by the American media.

"News" corps like CNN, Fox, CBS, NBC and ABC are imbedded so far up Bush's @ss that there is no chance of a dissenting opinion to that of the Administration (unless they want to lose Presidential access). These companies have done a disservice to Americans by throwing away their impartiality.

I certainly would never take Moore's views as the God-given truth, but I think there is a lot more truth to the film than fiction.

The fact that the bloodied coprses of dead Iraqis can litter American airwaves, but the sterile, bloodless, flag-draped coffins of "fallen heroes" can't speaks volumes. It's also alarming that the U.S. Administration gets enraged by footage of captured soldiers...but then says nothing when American media show footage of captured Iraqis and so-called "insurgents." Hell, they kept those dreadful prison photos a secret for MONTHS and only ackowledged them after they were leaked to the media.

Don't even get me started on how the U.S. (and the U.K.) breaks international law by illegally holding people, without charge, for years at a time off of American soil in the name of "national security." What a joke.

Last time I checked the Geneva Convention and other international treaties - enetered into by the U.S - also apllied to America.

So, good on Moore for exposing at least some of the massive injustices and illegal behavior of George W. Bush and the United States of America!

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MacDoc

I wonder if it's having an effect or would the only ones to go see already in the 70% of Canadians who don't support Harper.

I was surprised how crowded it was.

I like Moore's approach as it smacks of the best of As it Happens, 60 Minutes, when it was independent, the Washington Post on Watergate and Sinclair Lewis about the meat packing industry.
Nader too with "Unsafe at any Speed transformed the auto industry.

Lurid journalism is sometimes needed as a wakeup call.
Every damn tent preacher knows the score on that as does all the right wing radio hacks.

Moore fights back.
It's nice to see the oh so serious PBS etc but they are preaching to the converted.
Stuff like Moore puts it in the face of those that shrug it off or are a party to it.

I've been pleased with the investigative journalism of the Star tho lately they seem to have lost some of the fire in their belly.
They should have been all over the Toronto Police force, Fantino and that idiot on the police board they've been trying to toss for years.

I'm glad to see the Globe editor belly up to the bar and take a stand too.
The Fifth Estate is an enormously strong force - I notice the US talking heads get dissed deservedly in 9/11.

My sense is there is this underlying cauldron of discontent and dissatisfaction at the "status quo" that feels something like the lead in to the 60s and the very violent 70s.

It was good times then in the 60's as well but also a feeling of rebellion, I think the Greens are symptomatic of that, I suspect the Bloc as well.
Even "traditional WASP Canada" feeling squeezed into being a minority itself is "acting out".

Certainly the fight against globalization, evaluating the rat race pace of things, wanting action not talk on such topics as cleaner air, sustainable development etc.
Even the normally meek biz graduatues are focing the "institutions" to acknowledge their green ribbon campaign for promoting sustainable development and businesses


I suspect the muscle behind this is the internet and the communication. You almost sense from Moore's movie that the "establishment" is living in another age - that the "weapons of mass documentation" in the hands of everyperson are very seriously in play and unknown to the establisment.
The polls have all shown the anger and frustration.

How prescient was this.......20 years ago??



Something wicked this way comes...............

Turn your speakers up 1984 remind yourself.

••••

BTW - Moore offsets the press muzzling that goes on and on - good reading here

http://www.hrw.org/reports/1991/us2/

Go on it's okay to feel disgusted.......you're not alone.

[ June 26, 2004, 10:24 PM: Message edited by: MacDoc ]

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