Our military is a mess - we could improve it as it stands, add services as tho below, eliminate tradtional military and concentrate on our strengths in these areas given our limited resources. The poll covers a range plus asks about attitude towards a National Service as a good idea or not.
National Service concept
We are good at
SAR, Coast Guard, fire fighting ( oil and forest ) , disaster relief, rapid evac, communications, policing/peacekeeping, medical services, and other associated and where possible integrated public services right to National Park service. ( ie communications would be an example of integration - skill sets available to all segments. )
Equip them for work at home and abroad with fast lift capability to areas where they are needed.
Start a 2 year mandatory, no exceptions all Canadians & landed immigrants Canadian Service stint with additional post service education grants for "danger service" ala Swiss but without the military - just Canadian Service.
Evolve that into a Canadian Services reserve to keep instructors and experienced staff in the skill set along with a volunteer core of professional paid Canadian Service specialists ( like the SAR are now ).
••••••
Commentary very welcome if the Swiss and others can do why can't we
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"well...we CERTAINLY HAVE to do SOMETHING to change the system as is now stands!!
Cause it sure aint workin now!!"
Yep bang on - I believe most Canadians don't see the relevance of a standard military force and the current situation is an embarrassment. They DO see the need for a strong coast guard and are proud of being a peacemaker not a war maker.
So it needs changing.
I suspect the gradual role is absolutely required but to do it right I believe it will require a service component by all Canadians. And it sure as hell would not hurt a few young people I know. [img]tongue.gif[/img]
But it's gotta be everybody does some form even if it's deskbound due to disability - there is a pride then in being Canadian having done your turn.
I beleive that there a many global disasters mainly weather related and some human related waiting in the wings as the population and global warming build to a climax over the next 50 years. Getting the services listed prepared, spending money now on those, NOT military will pay off big time.
As Churchill did prior to WWII jivvying his compatriots to at least get something ready for the looming conflict it's an uphill battle when times are good and I can't see Martin re-equipping the military as it stands.
As Gerry says....."we HAVE to do something"
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Somebody check the waters of Hell. Have they frozen over yet?
MacDoc and MacNutt have just agreed on something!
Maybe there is hope for the future of mankind yet!
Mike [img]graemlins/lmao.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/lmao.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/lmao.gif[/img]
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The saddest aspect of life right now is that science gathers knowledge faster than society gathers wisdom. <br />–Isaac Asimov (1920-1992)
>> MacDoc: We do not need a "traditional" military nor can we afford it. There is nothing wrong with armed and trained service personnel where it's called for.<<
Those, my friend, are dangerous dreams. We will always need a traditional military, and the reasons is in the words themselves.
Tradition!
Without a military organization, structured and funded as a military organization, all of our existing traditions and methods of operation will be lost and as any student of military history will tell you it is those self-same traditions which enable a group of ordinary, walk-about civilians to perform the extra-ordinary tasks asked of them in times of war. That is why the regimental system has always been so important (although in the US and Russia it applies at the divisional level). Tradition.
Secondly, when and if they are needed, we will have to have a strong cadre of trained and ready troops to serve as an officer corps and nco corps. They will have to know all of those things that a traditional military trains in day after day; small unit tactics; integrating armour and infantry; close air support tactics; defensive fields of fire; artillery usage; etc. etc. etc. These are things that can only be learned in a traditional military environment becuase they have to be practiced again and again and again.
Mike
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The saddest aspect of life right now is that science gathers knowledge faster than society gathers wisdom. <br />–Isaac Asimov (1920-1992)
Guiness is exactly right. The areas he mentioned are totally independant of, and irrelevant to, the mundane details of equipment and spending.
There are many in the military and retired who fume to this day about the restructuring of the military of the 70's (ask someone who's a Navy vet if you really want an earfull).
A lot of those changes have since been quietly, but expensively reversed.
Militaries are evolutionary, not revolutionary. To make wholesale changes in structure are very dangerous. It takes a decade to implement and often a war to discover exactly how impaired a fighting force is disrupted by them.
The advantage of having a war is the problems are laid out quite clearly, in the form of body bags, while the necessary fixes happen relatively quickly.
Perhaps the best example is the USSR in 1941 which was not even an effective fighting force for 2 years. Today the Russian military is again in disarray, and the US is clearly taking advantage of what will be a decade-long window to wrest and entrench clear superiority.
There's nothing like a sudden problem that requires a certain tool to do the job. And then you reach for that tool, and find that your roommates have pawned it, and used the cash to pay the phone bill.
"We didn't need that darned tool anyway! We never use it! And we HAD to pay the phone bill!" they claim.
And, in a way, they'd be correct. Unless that tool was the one thing that could get you out of a serious jam. Or prevent, by it's very presence...a much more serious problem.
Think about it for a moment.
Guinness...
Actually macdoc and I agree on a surprising number of things. We just don't make a habit of letting everyone else know about it.
Canada’s traditional military a small under equipped regular force with a reserve component between wars. Vast and quickly mobilized and with strong popular support at the beginning of war.
In the 50’s 60’s 70’ and most of the 80’s our military’ s role was clear and defined by NATO and the cold war.
Many east coast communities were devastated by the “peace dividend”. The dismantling of CFB and CFS facilities and the resultant loss of payroll hurt the Atlantic Region’s economy.
Remember for every service person there are many civilian “defense” workers in support. Humm ...Could be a job creater. Hey Macnutt do you like apples ....well how do you like them apples Unionised jobs!!!!
If we are to equip a military IMHO we should define a military’s role. If you want to start a National Service perhaps we could start with the Armed Forces Cadet Movement which is BTW currently underfunded also.
Attempt to draw in Canada’s youth with programs to address situations that need “fixing”. Develop skills, bodies, minds and leadership with directed activities that would build, fix, remediate, help or assists people or communities.
Perhaps like hybrid of the current Cadet movement and the old Company of Young Canadians.
This concept is very loose mind you more for brainstorming if you will.
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