Lies, Lies, Damned Lies (Pt. II) - Page 5

MacDoc · Sep 17th, 2003, 08:38 PM

Michael
With Joe Clark gone and the Alliance so far from centre "'tain't gonna happen anytime soon."
If anything the NDP may slice enough off of Red Liberals to leave the mainstream Libs on the Blue side of the spectrum where the Progressive Conservatives used to reside.

If through Layton the NDP comes to represent the cities in stead of labour then like England the "new left" could be the "old Libs" and the new LIbs hold the old Progressive Conservative turf. Martin and Charest could easily have been Conservatives, Charest was. Strange drift we have here.
Tighter orbits around the centre with the edges having little appeal.

I still love that Star quote " progress.......one funeral at a time"

MACSPECTRUM · Sep 17th, 2003, 09:18 PM

David,
I was just "funnin."
I don't think the divided right will get together any time soon.
Paul Martin must see that as well and as such doesn't mind taking his time to succeed, Mon. Chretien.

I wonder if the people vote for the Liberals because there is no reasonable alternatives. I don't think so since the Liberals have formed a majority of the federal governments (no research, just memory) in my lifetime.

Je me souviens.

Chris · Sep 18th, 2003, 12:03 PM

The real problem with our electoral system is not representation by population, or the proportion of seats in the House of Commons guaranteed to Quebec. The real problem is our first past the post system of determining the winner.

A purely proportional system will eventually ossify under its own weight (for examples look at Israel and Italy), yet some method of dealing with winning percentages in the 30%-40% range has to be developed. Personally, I like the French system with run-off elections. If no-one in your riding wins 50% on election night, the two highest vote-getters keep going for another 2 weeks and then voters choose between them. This guarantees that every MP will have won at least 50% +1 votes.

Is this perfect, no, but to paraphrase the great man, it is less imperfect than what we have now. It would also be reasonably easy to implement in our system.

Just my 2 cents worth....

MacNutt · Sep 26th, 2003, 02:21 AM

Certainly looks like we may all be in for yet another round of "centering" towards the right, macdoc.

Just as it should be.

And...for the record...I'm rather in favor of the european style "runoff elections" when all is said and done. It just seems fairer. A multitude of my so-called "redneck" friends feel the same way. Just so you know.

As for the prospect of diminished power from Central Canada....

The Ontario Provincial election will most likely end with the Liberals in the drivers seat. Polls seem to indicate this eventual outcome...and I couldn't see even my own self ( were I an Ontarian) voting to continue Ernie Eves flawed leadership for a single extra day. He's history.

So...the incoming provincial Liberals could go either way. They could follow the lead of the BC Liberals or the newly elected Quebec Liberals, and adopt a set of right-wing policies that would make a hardline Conservative blush with envy (I suspect that they might just do this, BTW).

Or, they might just go back to the old ways and drive the province further in debt while pandering to the still-powerful unions. Subsidies for EVERYONE!! Yowsa!!

If the new government takes the former path then we will have the prospect of serious cuts to long-held social programs and a lot of very pissed off union types. Bad times for two or three years while it all takes effect...and then better times with less waste and stupidity will ensue. Cheers all around soon after that, and a solid mandate to continue from the electorate.

(Who cares what they're calling themselves this week. Just so long as they address reality. Really!)

If the incoming Ontario Provincial Government goes back to the tired old ways of tax and spend and pie in the sky subsidies for unsustainable programs...then WATCH OUT!

You won't have two or three years of tough times...you'll have a decade or more of them. And it will just get worse!

Either way, there is going to be a serious hiccup in the Central Canada engine of prosperity. Perhaps a short one...,perhaps a very long and trying one. Your choice.

Meanwhile...alll of us out here in the third most populous Province (equal in size and prosperity to yourselves, if you count our buddies in Alberta and Saskatchewan, BTW) will be growing like wildfire. And producing most of the real wealth in this country. And welcoming in thousands of the best and brightest from the faltering center of Canada. Plus a boatload of big money from many other parts of this continent...if you want to get picky about it.

So...go ahead. Whatever you guys choose for a Provincial Government is just fine with all of us.

And we hope you do well with it. Really.

Go ahead and keep on playing with the tired old ideas that have been tossed away by so very many other countries and states in the modern world. hey...they might just work this time out....right? [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/lmao.gif[/img]

And please ignore that loud frieght train sound that bearing down on you from the west. The one that's hooting loudly for you to get out of the way.

It's probably nothing, really. [img]graemlins/lmao.gif[/img]

MacNutt · Sep 27th, 2003, 08:34 AM

So...macdoc...

Nothing to say about all of this? Do you discount all of it in a wholesale fashion? Can't handle the reality that is bearing down on you? Do you still think that a union-controlled Ontario will somehow manage to be both prosperous and profitable? For everyone??

And will a heavily-unionised Ontario be even remotely competitive with the rest of North America??And, after the next Provincial Election, will Ontario be rapidly losing major manufacturing industries to the surrounding areas??

And are you still in total denial about all of this?

Please...share your thoughts.

macello · Sep 27th, 2003, 11:44 PM

"Voters believe McGuinty would be best premier
Situation dire for Tories, says EKOS Research pollster."
Star/EKOS

Looks like we Ontarians want to pay for mutually beneficial public programs after a decade of private sector disasters.

We are touched [img]graemlins/rofl.gif[/img] by Macnutt's futile hopes for Ontario's right-wing. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

We plumb forgot to ask for the nutt's quaint Thatcherite *bons mots.

*French (as in Peugeot) : bon=good + mot=word.

On Sept.25, the Salt Spring Island [img]graemlins/greedy.gif[/img] Save-On Gas price was 95.4 cents a litre for regular gas and premium was $1.054 a litre.

MacDoc · Sep 28th, 2003, 12:07 PM

Umm last time I checked MacNutt it was Bob Rae that ended any significant union activity in Ontario.
As usual a decade behind, BC hasn't even managed to balance a budget yet and with the amount of resources Alberta has economic health is a given.
Ontaro is taking a breather. Quebec will be the powerhouse.
BC is just getting with the program both Ontario and Quebec have been through years ago.
Quebec was late to the post but managed a better balance and is in a fabulous position..
Ontario fast off the mark but too much oversteer. Figure 4 years of fine tuning and infrastructure overhaul.
BC, we'll see once it's nose gets above water. Growing pains for sure.....can we say a "distant" third.

MACSPECTRUM · Sep 28th, 2003, 12:17 PM

macnutt said;

	Quote:
	Do you still think that a union-controlled Ontario will somehow manage to be both prosperous and profitable?

[img]graemlins/rofl.gif[/img]

I think the only think that might be possibly controlled by a union in Ontario is the Toronto Maple Leafs via the teachers pension fund...