Ah what's a little oil spill anyway? - Page 12 - ehMac.ca
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Old Jul 12th, 2012, 03:41 PM   #111
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Well there's always hope....
Calls for Alberta pipeline safety review grow louder - The Globe and Mail
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Old Jul 13th, 2012, 08:31 AM   #112
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And the opposition gets organized -
B.C. NDP Leader Adrian Dix mobilizes to nix Northern Gateway - The Globe and Mail
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Old Jul 13th, 2012, 08:51 AM   #113
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Louder? Organized? Looks like the end of oil pipelines in Canada! Stick a fork in that Northern Gateway--it's done!
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Old Jul 13th, 2012, 09:42 AM   #114
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Louder? Organized? Looks like the end of oil pipelines in Canada! Stick a fork in that Northern Gateway--it's done!
I am of two minds on Northern Gateway. The need to reduce Canadian trade dependence on the US is overwhelming. However NG is going through some wonderful territory, several First Nations and Northern Pipeline construction is tricky under the best of circumstances. Build it but do not try to short circuit environmental safeguards.

Beyond that; Let these big Corps put some of their huge cash surpluses to work in the form of big cash bonds for when the inevitable OOPS! hits home.
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Old Jul 13th, 2012, 09:59 AM   #115
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Beyond that; Let these big Corps put some of their huge cash surpluses to work in the form of big cash bonds for when the inevitable OOPS! hits home.
Exactly! There is no reason that you can't put a per-gallon price on oil spills, added to all clean-up costs. Let the oil companies put up a bond, then figure out how they're going to achieve the lowest possible fine levels.
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Old Jul 13th, 2012, 02:06 PM   #116
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Exactly! There is no reason that you can't put a per-gallon price on oil spills, added to all clean-up costs. Let the oil companies put up a bond, then figure out how they're going to achieve the lowest possible fine levels.
I actually agree with you for once!!!
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Old Jul 13th, 2012, 04:26 PM   #117
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Exactly! There is no reason that you can't put a per-gallon price on oil spills, added to all clean-up costs. Let the oil companies put up a bond, then figure out how they're going to achieve the lowest possible fine levels.
You can't put a per-gallon price on my home, or the community that I love. You can't put a per-gallon price on debilitating health effects that can linger for decades or lifetimes. You can't put a per-gallon price on destroying people's way of life. You can't put a price on destroying a relatively pristine ecosystem that is a global treasure. A major BC coastal bitumen spill would have effects that can't be repaired with cash.

All you could do is give people enough money to regroup and carry on if possible or try and re-create their broken lives elsewhere. But as we know from past experience, companies won't ever pay out even enough for that basic justice.

Your idea that the oil companies or pipeline companies would agree to carry a large enough bond or get enough insurance to adequately compensate people whose homes, health, lives and livelihoods might be destroyed in a major coastal bitumen spill in BC is completely unrealistic.

The companies would never agree to taking on such a massive cost. It would make their product uncompetitive and/or destroy their profits. And no government -- certainly not a Conservative government involving Stephen Harper -- would ever contemplate imposing such a rule.

And as we have seen from past major spills, oil companies aggressively fight paying out any compensation and tend to slink away and abandon their responsibilities once the spotlight from the media goes elsewhere, leaving a trail of lawyers to fight any lingering demands. Costs for cleanup, health and rebuilding communities inevitably fall to government.

Fortunately for BC, the Enbridge bitumen pipeline will not happen anytime soon, if ever, due to the vast majority of the BC population here being opposed. That includes many BC native bands whose land the pipeline would have to cross and who have proclaimed "never". Other areas may not be so lucky.
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Old Jul 13th, 2012, 04:37 PM   #118
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This is one reason New York is banning fracking - what's the value of a watershed?

or the cost of not having a clean one.? Companies that pollute and get hit with beg settlements just pack their tents - the damage in many cases cannot be undone.

A major reason aside from the larger AGW threat to move to low carbon is to reduce or eliminate hydrocarbon pollution of all forms.
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Old Jul 13th, 2012, 05:07 PM   #119
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You can't put a per-gallon price on my home, or the community that I love. You can't put a per-gallon price on debilitating health effects that can linger for decades or lifetimes.
Yes, you can! Just the same way you assess the costs of traveling by a motorized fossil-fueled vehicle, knowing full well it might cause lung cancer in a fellow human being.
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Old Jul 13th, 2012, 09:48 PM   #120
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Exactly! There is no reason that you can't put a per-gallon price on oil spills, added to all clean-up costs. Let the oil companies put up a bond, then figure out how they're going to achieve the lowest possible fine levels.
This is good policy. It transfers the cost of risk to the ones introducing the risk.

The next challenge would be calculating the cost of the risk. Ideally, enough to mitigate the risk entirely, hopefully enough that it is not discounted as "acceptable losses as a part of doing business".

Somewhere between Harper and Nimby, is there a figure the market would bear?
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