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Old Apr 21st, 2012, 01:17 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by screature View Post
If you are in a war zone and are keeping company with the wrong side...
An abuse is an abuse. Just because he happens to be your guy and claims to have a good excuse does not make it acceptable. If this was a Liberal government the howls from the con side would be deafening.

King Harpo is following this up with Bill C-30, with almost no changes from the failed original Liberal version. Like it or not abuse of the charter at the hands of the Government, does indeed get worse if Canadians are willing to tolerate it.

I'll take my chances with terrorists. Let's face it I am more likely to get struck by lightning than to be killed or maimed by a terrorist. OTOH Please preserve me from those that claim they are protecting me from terrorists. The price they demand is just way too high.
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Old Apr 21st, 2012, 01:22 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by eMacMan View Post
An abuse is an abuse. Just because he happens to be your guy and claims to have a good excuse does not make it acceptable. If this was a Liberal government the howls from the con side would be deafening.

King Harpo is following this up with Bill C-30, with almost no changes from the failed original Liberal version. Like it or not abuse of the charter at the hands of the Government, does indeed get worse if Canadians are willing to tolerate it.

I'll take my chances with terrorists. Let's face it I am more likely to get struck by lightning than to be killed or maimed by a terrorist. OTOH Please preserve me from those that claim they are protecting me from terrorists. The price they demand is just way too high.
Don't like it here go to Afghanistan, real estate is cheap.
Just like Mark Emery hated repressive rule in Canada and moved to Thailand then 6 months later he was back.
This is the cost of doing business to keep you safe and making being hit by lightening a higher risk.
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Old Apr 21st, 2012, 01:43 PM   #83
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If this was a Liberal government the howls from the con side would be deafening.
I highly doubt it.
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Old Apr 21st, 2012, 01:49 PM   #84
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I highly doubt it.
On this, Macfury and I agree - the Cons would not be howling for Khadr's charter rights to be protected. Their rhetoric would be entirely in line with the Breitbart bit I posted earlier.
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Old Apr 21st, 2012, 01:55 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eMacMan View Post
An abuse is an abuse. Just because he happens to be your guy and claims to have a good excuse does not make it acceptable. If this was a Liberal government the howls from the con side would be deafening.

King Harpo is following this up with Bill C-30, with almost no changes from the failed original Liberal version. Like it or not abuse of the charter at the hands of the Government, does indeed get worse if Canadians are willing to tolerate it.

I'll take my chances with terrorists. Let's face it I am more likely to get struck by lightning than to be killed or maimed by a terrorist. OTOH Please preserve me from those that claim they are protecting me from terrorists. The price they demand is just way too high.
I never sided with the government's inaction merely refuted your claim that Kahdr's case somehow makes us all subject to such inaction. There is no evidence for this and until there is I still call FUD on your statement.
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Old Apr 21st, 2012, 03:39 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eMacMan View Post
An abuse is an abuse. Just because he happens to be your guy and claims to have a good excuse does not make it acceptable. If this was a Liberal government the howls from the con side would be deafening.

King Harpo is following this up with Bill C-30, with almost no changes from the failed original Liberal version. Like it or not abuse of the charter at the hands of the Government, does indeed get worse if Canadians are willing to tolerate it.

I'll take my chances with terrorists. Let's face it I am more likely to get struck by lightning than to be killed or maimed by a terrorist. OTOH Please preserve me from those that claim they are protecting me from terrorists. The price they demand is just way too high.
I must concur with eMM on his premiss that for Government to act arbitrary, discriminatory or selectively on the Khadr matter means they could act similarly on other matters, even matters that affect you or me.

Impinging on rights or freedoms while "protecting us" from a bogeyman is not something that I shall go along with quietly.
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Old Apr 21st, 2012, 03:45 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by screature View Post
Lichen Software I was commenting specifically on eMacMan's claim that the Khadr case puts us all at risk for such treatment... It simply does not.
I guess my problem with this is to my optics, "We as the government of Canada do not like this family so we are just going to do what ever we can to be rid of them all." leaves everyone vulnerable to the dislike of the political masters of the day. The intransigence of the goverment in the face of supreme court rulings just reinforces my impression of this situation. The lack of respect by Vic Toews is incredible.
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Old Apr 21st, 2012, 04:25 PM   #88
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I guess my problem with this is to my optics, "We as the government of Canada do not like this family so we are just going to do what ever we can to be rid of them all." leaves everyone vulnerable to the dislike of the political masters of the day. The intransigence of the government in the face of supreme court rulings just reinforces my impression of this situation. The lack of respect by Vic Toews is incredible.
Yep that is about it and that's all.... Can't agree with "leaves everyone vulnerable to the dislike of the political masters of the day" as everyone is not in a war zone committing alleged crimes and treason...

This is a unique case unlike any other in Canadian jurisprudence and why the Supreme Court ruled the way it did...

Court refuses to order Khadr home


The Supreme Court has effectively admitted they don't have jurisdiction to make a legally binding ruling... it is up to the Government to decide... it seems their decision is pending and they aren't too interested in bringing Khadr to Canada any time soon...

Write you MP with your objections... just make sure it is from you and not some form e-mail... you will most likely get a much better response.
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Old Apr 23rd, 2012, 01:09 AM   #89
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I never sided with the government's inaction merely refuted your claim that Kahdr's case somehow makes us all subject to such inaction. There is no evidence for this and until there is I still call FUD on your statement.
BTW I have a couple of German friends who were young teenagers in pre-WWII Germany. They rather vociferously disagree that it is OK to let these things go just because we do not happen to like the individuals involved.

Just curious though. If an underage Canadian/Israeli citizen were to be arrested in Iran and confess to assorted crimes after years of torture, and Iran was to offer to send him back to Canada with the understanding that he serve out the remainder of a jail sentence in Canada, would you similarly support leaving him hung out to dry in Iran?
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Old Apr 23rd, 2012, 02:34 AM   #90
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BTW I have a couple of German friends who were young teenagers in pre-WWII Germany. They rather vociferously disagree that it is OK to let these things go just because we do not happen to like the individuals involved.
...

Yup, this is their awareness. Not to mention that a great many Germans over generations have suffered from that era. Let's not let the same stuff recur.
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