According to cnet, it looks like Apple may be adopting Light Peak technology in the upcoming Macbook Pro update. This might explain why Apple has been slow to adopt USB 3.0.
Newdeal, though, made a good point on this topic exactly one year ago. When will we see Light Peak peripherals? It could take awhile, so maybe we will still see USB 3.0 along with Light Peak on Macs.
I think its pretty clear USB 3.0 will be the technology for the next few years so yeah I am sure apple will have it. I am guessing they would like to introduce light peak at some point but USB 3.0 will be easier to implement due to the backwards compatibilty and also I am sure that lightpeak is going to take a bit of time to be priced well enough for them to fit it into systems and get peripheral makers to adopt it. [snip, snip] I will guess that USB 3.0 won't be in macs until 2011 with the macbook pros and mac pros getting it earlier in the year and the macbook and imacs getting it towards the end of the year
... Newdeal, though, made a good point on this topic exactly one year ago. When will we see Light Peak peripherals? It could take awhile, so maybe we will still see USB 3.0 along with Light Peak on Macs.
Exactly, do any Light Peak capable peripherals even exist yet? USB 3.0 peripherals do, it would be silly for Apple to adopt a technology for which no peripherals exist all the while bypassing an existing technology that provides far greater speeds than anything they offer now.
I don't recall the exact history in terms of peripheral development and actual deployment of the standard. Firewire is the Apple branded version of the IEEE 1394 interface which was developed in conjunction with Sony (branded i.Link) and Texas Instruments (branded Lynx).
As I recall the deployment of Firewire and i.Link was primarily used in the beginning in conjunction with video cameras and audio components.
The main point for me is this (as I mentioned in my previous post), why leapfrog over USB 3.0 which has an established base of peripherals already in manufacture in favour of a standard that has next to no/no peripherals ready to be used. Effectively adding a port/feature that is currently useless.
I guess they are adopting the "Field of Dreams" approach... "build it and they will come". Which can be true, but why not in the meantime provide a truly useful feature/port.
The cnet article mentions that the initial implementation of Light Peak will likely use copper, not fiber optic, so a USB 3.0 adapter isn't impossible, I'd assume. This other article indicates that Light Speed could be used as the carrier protocol over which native protocols, like USB 3.0, can run.
I read somewhere that there may be breakout boxes that would connect over a single light peak cable into the Mac. I wouldn't trust breakout boxes under normal circumstances, but I think if anyone can figure a way to make them stylish, unobtrusive and highly function; I'd say it has to be Apple lol!
"Greg Grothe says:
April 1, 2007 at 12:03 am
The one part of the history he left out was that in 1998 while most IBM PC’s had a USB port, none of the peripheral manufacturers were making USB devices. When Apple announced going to USB, this forced that segment (Mac peripheral market) to go to USB – and it exploded. In a year you had gobs of USB devices, for both the IBM PC’s and the Macs. Apple’s move made USB take off – we owe the kudos to them."
I was using an ADB G3 Mac at the time and recall many a snide remark from some Winbox users about Apple being such a looser and were now installing those useless USB ports in thier new Macs.
And Apple almost blew it with the round "Hockey puck" USB mouse that came with those Macs. ;-)
My bad, sorry... I was thinking of USB 2.0, my post is actually applicable to USB 2.0. The reason for Apple's slow adoption of USB 2.0 was quite simple.. they were defending their interest in Firewire.
Sorry guys and thanks pm-r for setting the record straight.
I wasn't trying to set any "record straight", but just posting my recollection and another's quote to give it some supportive credit.
But I sure agree with your comment of Apple's slow implementation of USB 2.0 and I finally got fed up and put in a USB 2.0 PCI card into our G4 1.25 GHz MDD Mac just a few years ago.
Maybe I should do the same with a PCI e-SATA card for occasional useage of such devices. Or maybe even add a Firewire 800 card or.... Hmmm...
I don't even have some of those choices with our Intel 24" 2.4 GHz iMac. And I must admit that I have always appreciated the expansion capabilities of the tower Macs.
I don't even have some of those choices with our Intel 24" 2.4 GHz iMac. And I must admit that I have always appreciated the expansion capabilities of the tower Macs.
And every year the expansion choices get less and less. Now the only Macs that we can really add cards to are Mac Pro's and 17" MacBook Pro's (and I bet not for much longer for them). Yes sure, you can add external USB or Firewire devices ... but that still leaves a pretty large and gaping hole in your expansion choices. Want eSata or USB3 -- things that have already pretty much become standard on other platforms? If you don't have one of the aforementioned machines forget it. It's like we're taking steps backwards again ... remember the days before standard video, keyboard and mouse connections? (i.e. VGA/DVI, USB) ... it seems to be rearing its ugly head again.
To me that's honestly a sad state of affairs ... hopefully this will change, but I'm not holding my breath. Apple has always sort of been an "Our way or the Highway" type of hardware manufacturer.
This thread excites me. I'm really looking forward to all the new technologies. Most of all, I'm hoping to see an Lite peak pci-e card for my mac pro asap! I know that there's no peripherals yet but it would make my 3 year old MP feel current again!
I think its at the point now though that USB 3.0 even though it has been available for awhile has been used in so few systems that manufacturers won't have trouble switching over to producing thunderbolt products instead and with intel paving the way rather than apple companies that rely on intel chipsets (pretty much everybody) will be able to use thunderbolt easily. I think intel has made the decision to kill USB 3
Very true I think it is amazing how few USB 3 devices out in the market. It almost seems like a chicken and the egg thing. Companies are not making USB 3 devices because there are still not a lot of computers that come with USB3, and of course computer companies...you know visa versa.
From the specs "thunderbolt" sounds good, only time is gonna tell if it takes off.
There are actually quite a lot of USB3 devices in certain sectors ... pro audio and video being two of them. Not as much in the consumer devices that I've seen to date though.
I'd always assumed that these were sectors in which Mac held a significant market share. Certainly in the pro video arena, where Final Cut Pro is available, Macs play a big role. Do these Mac users rely on Firewire 800? Have peripheral developers embraced FW800? (I happily muddle along with FW400 on my aging Macs.)
Reading the press releases on Thunderbolt today, I'm now rooting for USB 3.0. I need fast reliable connection speeds today not when I buy a new computer 2-3 years from now. Unlike Thunderbolt, USB 3.0 can be added to my Mac Pro via PCI-e Card. Intel has confirmed that it will not have a PCI-e Card or express card adapter. Only way to add Thunderbolt is to buy a new computer! This implementation is very similar to PCI moving to PCI-E, and remember that took 1-2 years after it was first brought to the market and finally standardized at pci-e 2.0.
So let me get this straight, you are rooting for a technology because you can add it to your old computer. So when you get a new computer you want it to have a slower, more CPU-reliant technology, just so you can be happy for a couple of years in the meantime?
Why can't Apple have both? It would be similar to what they have now with firewire and usb. Just Thunderbolt and usb3. Everyone would be happy. Can't we all just get along?
Take this for what it's worth, but according to this liveblog of the Intel launch of Light Peak, it doesn't appear that Light Peak PCI Express cards will be compatible with current computers. (Jump down to 10:25 for a short mention by cnet editor Dong Ngo).
Thanks for the clarification, I almost missed the 800 MB/sec is 6.4 Gbps translation.
Those big Bs and little bs get me every time. ;-)
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