Rather than trying to "invent" a new feature like the "like" feature, why not ask members what type of feature or improvemt they would like to see.

I for one find that the search feature doesn't work well at all.
I often get lots of results that have nothing to do with the search term while threads with the search terms are being missed.
That's especially noticeable if one tries to find a thread again - I know the thread is somewhere on ehMac but "search" just cannot find it.

For one, "search should give one the option to look for a specific keyword, not automatically also bring up all hits where the keyword is only part of the term.
Many of the forum search engines I use do that - one can select to look for the keyword only or look for terms where the keyword is part of the target.

Search should also not automatically decided to eliminate every three letter word in the search process, especially in a technical type of forum like ehMac where many three letter acronyms are used. Working around that by adding an * to let the search proceed doesn't work because of the problem mentioned earlier.
An easy temporary fix would be to allow three letter words of the word is all capitalized and stands on its own. That way searches for IDE, USB, DVI, VGA, etc. etc. would bring up results.


As to other improvements or new features - can't think of any off hand.
The EhMac forum actually works a lot better than most other forums I visit.

Where did the thread you started on the "like" feature go????

I thought you had posted some well thought out and reasonable comments on the feature, but when I returned to review it and add my comments, suddenly it's gone and replaced by this one.

Looks like the original one was deleted, SINC. Including my response. I guess it just didn't fit in with the board's official messaging policy.

I'm really surprised that the original post was deleted.
Not something I ever expected on EhMac - there was nothing derogatory in the post.
Locking it would have been acceptable, but deleting it ???/

I was just trying to help to put this "like" feature into perspective.
One of my jobs is to write Product Specs which the development teams (Hardware and software) then use to develop product.
Doesn't seem as if anyone wrote a Product Spec for this feature or if they did, the software developers certainly didn't follow it since the feature doesn't meet its basic intent as stated by the mayor himself.

Rather than trying to "invent" a new feature like the "like" feature, why not ask members what type of feature or improvemt they would like to see....

The EhMac forum actually works a lot better than most other forums I visit.

+1 Exactly.... why not take a poll first to see if people would like to see a given feature added first and thus avoid the s**t storm that has been going on today.

I'm really surprised that the original post was deleted.
Not something I ever expected on EhMac - there was nothing derogatory in the post.
Locking it would have been acceptable, but deleting it ???/

I was just trying to help to put this "like" feature into perspective.
One of my jobs is to write Product Specs which the development teams (Hardware and software) then use to develop product.
Doesn't seem as if anyone wrote a Product Spec for this feature or if they did, the software developers certainly didn't follow it since the feature doesn't meet its basic intent as stated by the mayor himself.

+1 EhMax's actions today have been surprising to say the least, to put it in polite terms, and IMO quite frankly completely unjustifiable. :mad:

And I don't think locking it would have been acceptable either.

I'm really surprised that the original post was deleted.
Not something I ever expected on EhMac - there was nothing derogatory in the post.
Locking it would have been acceptable, but deleting it ???/

I was just trying to help to put this "like" feature into perspective.
One of my jobs is to write Product Specs which the development teams (Hardware and software) then use to develop product.
Doesn't seem as if anyone wrote a Product Spec for this feature or if they did, the software developers certainly didn't follow it since the feature doesn't meet its basic intent as stated by the mayor himself.

krs, I thought your post was both excellently reasoned and respectful.

Deleting messages to eliminate dissenting opinion didn't work in Egypt and it will certainly initiate bad karma if tried here.

krs's original post:

The problem is that the "like" feature is inherently flawed.....
....
The basic idea seems good:

Quote:
Quite often, ehMac.ca will have a thread with a topic that becomes popular, and will turn into pages and pages of posts. For someone just coming to the site for the first time, or for someone who hasn't been to the forums for a bit, it can be daunting reading through dozens of pages. It would be nice to skip through a thread, to find the posts that are the most interesting. That is where the new "Like" feature comes in!

I visit ehMac quite regularly but a thread sometimes only interests me after it has become popular and it would be nice to be able to just hit the highlights to get a "feel" of what's going on. The problem is that the "like" feature, the way it is implemented doesn't do that - ie doesn't fulfil its intended purpose.

Here is the first reason:

Quote:
As an example, I've gone to the "Visually Humourous Piece of the Day" and have gone through about 50 pages, and have "Liked" the posts I found the most humourous. If you go there, and click on the "Like Tree", you'll see those posts, and there you can select one of the posts to view.

What the major might find humerous, I might not, so that doesn't help me. Over time, I'm sure one of the many ehMac members will eventually find the other posts humerous as well, so they will eventually all end up with a "like" tag which makes the feature useless unless their is some weighting attached to it as well - ie a "Like Tree" where only posts show up that have received say ten "likes" or more.

Quote:
Over time, the more that members "Like" posts they've read, the more useful this feature may be. Someone coming up to a large thread for the first time, will quickly see the most interesting posts in a thread.

Only if there is some weighting of number of likes per post is pert of the feature, but even then it's questionable if this implimentation will fulfil its intended purpose as initially stated by the Mayor.

It begs the basis question - would evough people benefit from this feature to make it worthwhile? Although I liked the idea when I first read it, I now must say my answer would be "No"

Quote:
Also, one more interesting tidbit, under your "Your Notifications" link in the top right of each screen, there's an area where you can see any new "Likes" that you have
received.

Well, with this part of the implementation, the feature derailed itself completely.
That part is totally contrary to the intended purpose:
For someone just coming to the site for the first time, or for someone who hasn't been to the forums for a bit, it can be daunting reading through dozens of pages. It would be nice to skip through a thread, to find the posts that are the most interesting.

The purpose as stated is to help others find the most interesting posts in a thread - not patting those on the back who received a lot of "likes"

I'm really surprised that the original post was deleted.
Not something I ever expected on EhMac - there was nothing derogatory in the post.
Locking it would have been acceptable, but deleting it ???/

Man, this is really out of character for the mayor who is normally open to ideas, suggestions and criticism. I wonder why this heavy handed action?

Man, this is really out of character for the mayor who is normally open to ideas, suggestions and criticism. I wonder why this heavy handed action?

Perhaps because he invested a lot of time and effort into it and is taking it personally...

I tried to post this earlier but when I clicked on submit the tread was locked:

EhMax....

We are merely expressing out initial reactions and the fact that we don't like it. You seem to be taking it almost personally. I realize it must have taken some effort on your part to set this up, but you interventions/attempts at censure of our opinions are not appreciated.

Let the thread/s live and you will soon enough come to realize the consensus/plurality but we should be allowed to speak our minds without your repeated interventions basically telling us to keep quite.

krs, I thought your post was both excellently reasoned and respectful.

Deleting messages to eliminate dissenting opinion didn't work in Egypt and it will certainly initiate bad karma if tried here.

Agreed...

Perhaps because he invested a lot of time and effort into it and is taking it personally...

...and probably money - someone got paid for developing this feature.

I think you hit the nail 'squarely' on the head

Some of you guys are really, really working yourself in a knot over nothing.

All the "Like" comment posts are in one thread (http://www.ehmac.ca/info-centre/92999-like-tree.html).

A tiny little feature gets implemented, and in a few second, without even giving it a try for a bit, it sucks, its garbage, how do I turn it off, here's a hack to remove it. :rolleyes: You can't really gauge the usefulness of the feature until its been in use for a bit.

I'm saying let's try it for awhile. Just try it, is that too much to ask? Is the negativity always required from the same members every single time immediately when the slightest change is made?

Just try it. That's all I'm asking. After you've tried it for awhile, then of course I'll listen to feedback, and make changes.

As for the comparisons to closing a feedback thread on a vBulletin feature to what's going on in Egypt? Absolutely Shameful. If you feel that way, feel free to leave ehMac anytime you like.

Maybe this is some well needed excitement for a Saturday morning for some, but I suggest just using the forum for a bit, and we'll revisit the "like" feature in a few weeks and either make changes or scrap it all together.

The 'like' feature seems flawed in it's current form, but that doesn't mean it can never be a useful feature.

Right now i'd say that 'like notifications' shouldn't occupy the same link that also notifies us of new PMs. That's the only real issue i have with it at the moment.

The other (minor) issue i have with it would be to change the icon from a heart to a thumbs up...... i have trouble committing to 'love' something. :)

However, I do see real potential in being able to jump to the most popular posts in a long thread. I'm not sure if the likes are properly ranked in each thread at the moment, but i'm sure it's something that can be easily implemented.

I have no problem trying it out for a couple of weeks and then giving more input on how it can be improved.

Some of you guys are really, really working yourself in a knot over nothing.

All the "Like" comment posts are in one thread (http://www.ehmac.ca/info-centre/92999-like-tree.html).

A tiny little feature gets implemented, and in a few second, without even giving it a try for a bit, it sucks, its garbage, how do I turn it off, here's a hack to remove it. :rolleyes: You can't really gauge the usefulness of the feature until its been in use for a bit.

I'm saying let's try it for awhile. Just try it, is that too much to ask? Is the negativity always required from the same members every single time immediately when the slightest change is made?

Just try it. That's all I'm asking. After you've tried it for awhile, then of course I'll listen to feedback, and make changes.

As for the comparisons to closing a feedback thread on a vBulletin feature to what's going on in Egypt? Absolutely Shameful. If you feel that way, feel free to leave ehMac anytime you like.

Maybe this is some well needed excitement for a Saturday morning for some, but I suggest just using the forum for a bit, and we'll revisit the "like" feature in a few weeks and either make changes or scrap it all together.

You don't get it ehMax.. it isn't about the feature... it is about your heavy handed actions. Perhaps you need some time to think about what people are telling you before posting again...

The 'like' feature seems flawed in it's current form, but that doesn't mean it can never be a useful feature.

Right now i'd say that 'like notifications' shouldn't occupy the same link that also notifies us of new PMs. That's the only real issue i have with it at the moment.

The other (minor) issue i have with it would be to change the icon from a heart to a thumbs up...... i have trouble committing to 'love' something. :)

However, I do see real potential in being able to jump to the most popular posts in a long thread. I'm not sure if the likes are properly ranked in each thread at the moment, but i'm sure it's something that can be easily implemented.

I have no problem trying it out for a couple of weeks and then giving more input on how it can be improved.

I don't think any of us have a problem with trying it... what we have a problem with is our dissenting posts being deleted, our threads being deleted and moved because we are voicing our opinions... This is just not one has come to expect from ehMac and ehMax and he has yet to offer an explanation to justify his actions. That is what the real issue is even though he continues to deflect and pretend it is about not liking the "like" feature.

You don't get it ehMax.. it isn't about the feature... it is about your heavy handed actions. Perhaps you need some time to think about what people are telling you before posting again...

Right.

Moving comments about a new like feature to the Info thread is super heavy handed, akin to being a dictator in Egypt. :rolleyes:

Removing specific instructions and code on a hack that removes all ads from ehMac, thereby taking money away from me an my family is mean spirited and I do it because I have a power trip problem. :rolleyes:

Perhaps excitement and indignation over this little feature has gotten beyond ridiculous and I have reason to be upset.

Right.

Moving comments about a new like feature to the Info thread is super heavy handed, akin to being a dictator in Egypt. :rolleyes:

Removing specific instructions and code on a hack that removes all ads from ehMac, thereby taking money away from me an my family is mean spirited and I do it because I have a power trip problem. :rolleyes:

Perhaps excitement and indignation over this little feature has gotten beyond ridiculous and I have reason to be upset.


They were first removed and some still remain removed.

Right! Now we get to the heart of the matter.

So if you make money from this feature in a "Public" forum that many of us have already paid for the "privilege" to avoid the other money making portion of your web site you are saying we have no "right" to voice our opinions about a universally added feature that we as paid members can't opt out of? Why not at least add it as an option for paid subscribers to opt out of the "Like" feature. That would be fair.

I think we're getting closer to honesty here.

Right.

Moving comments about a new like feature to the Info thread is super heavy handed, akin to being a dictator in Egypt. :rolleyes:

Removing specific instructions and code on a hack that removes all ads from ehMac, thereby taking money away from me an my family is mean spirited and I do it because I have a power trip problem. :rolleyes:

Perhaps excitement and indignation over this little feature has gotten beyond ridiculous and I have reason to be upset.

In all fairness to myself, that code only removed the irritating feature at hand, not any advertisements.

In all fairness to myself, that code only removed the irritating feature at hand, not any advertisements.

Exactly. I find the ads mildly irritating but understand their necessity. Blocking an annoying "LIKE" feature that does not enhance my online experience does not take food out of the mouths of anyone's children.

If you want honesty, it's that I'm annoyed at how quickly a new feature was rejected without even trying it.

I said let's try it first, and closed the feedback thread and moved it to the info centre.

Then people started comparing me to an Egyptian dictator and also started posting code for hacks with software that removes all ads from the site.

Then I mentioned people should relax and just try the feature for a bit, and by the way, posting code for a hack that removes all ads from the site takes money from me.

Now apparently, that's what its been all about, you've got to the heart of the matter, and we've got more ammo to continue this Saturday excitement.

I give up... feel free to whine about the Like feature after trying it for 10 seconds, supreme dictatorship, and evil greedy conspiracy theories... I'm pretty sure that's really what you want out of the forum right now anyways.

If you want honesty, it's that I'm annoyed at how quickly a new feature was rejected without even trying it.

I said let's try it first, and closed the feedback thread and moved it to the info centre.

Then people started comparing me to an Egyptian dictator and also started posting code for hacks with software that removes all ads from the site.

Then I mentioned people should relax and just try the feature for a bit, and by the way, posting code for a hack that removes all ads from the site takes money from me.

Now apparently, that's what its been all about, you've got to the heart of the matter, and we've got more ammo to continue this Saturday excitement.

I give up... feel free to whine about the Like feature after trying it for 10 seconds, supreme dictatorship, and evil greedy conspiracy theories... I'm pretty sure that's really what you want out of the forum right now anyways.

You know very well that isn't what the complaints were about and why the comparison to Mubarak and BTW the code doesn't remove all ads from the site. You could have simply deleted JC's post and kept the thread active, you didn't. But then when people didn't like the closing of that thread you closed down/moved two more threads (and deleted some of their posts) to the least trafficked part of the site to avoid embarrassment .

The comparison to Mubarak was because it is currently topical and relevant due to your censuring actions. You could have censured one "dissenter" due to their hack but instead you decided to censure all "dissenting" opinions. Does this make it clear for you now?

You may be annoyed by the response to your new feature, EhMax, but unfortunately for some users it's so off the mark that it defies any sort of trial period. Unless one loves FaceBook, it's simply irritating and a downgrade in the EhMac user experience.

I want you to understand that you're welcome to monkey with the system any time you choose, but when you begin to delete threads or messages that do not violate the terms of service, merely because they're irritating to you, the comparison to Egypt is apt.

It's simply not true to suggest that John Clay's code is costing you money--unless you've implemented the FaceBook system as some sort of covert revenue enhancer.

For those who keep insisting the Mubarak comparisons are valid and justified, your opinions are completely null and void to me. I sincerely hope that there are features on ehMac that keep irritating you to the point that you leave. Please, delete your bookmarks on the way out. Your negativity and over the top hyperbole is probably keeping sane, well meaning people away from the site and driving others away.

Feedback wasn't deleted, it was moved to the Info Centre and merged into one thread.

Only repeated posting that promotes use of software that circumvents ads on ehMac.ca were removed.

The "Like" feature, has nothing to do with Facebook. The link could be changed to "This is good content", or "This post was informative", or "I got a lot of use out of this post" or "I really laughed when I read this"... It's just easier, and more familiar to say "Like"

This is creating an underlying layer of information on what type of content the community likes and finds useful and this information can open up lots of possibilities and ways for new and existing users to find and sort through the 1 million + posts and threads on ehMac.

For example, on a really huge thread, if you find one particular author has several posts "Liked" you can chose to see all posts in that thread by that author.

There's A LOT of content, that scroll past page 1, that over half a million visitors a month find useful.

Little details about the notifications and the placement of the "Like" thread etc... can be addressed later, I've just asked about a dozen times that we just use it for a couple weeks. A small like Link and notifications of posts that people have liked is not that annoying.

I sincerely hope that there are features on ehMac that keep irritating you to the point that you leave.

Really? What kind of talk is that for a forum leader?

Really? What kind of talk is that for a forum leader?

The one who keeps getting messages from members of ehMac, both past and present, who are tired of the same people on ehMac always posting the same negativity.

I've gotten a lot of encouraging messages and emails of support today from the silent majority for standing up to the negativity that gets perpetuated all the time around here.

I've received negative, complaining emails from the same few members that complain all the time and always seem to be associated with issues.

I think a lot of good members have been turned away from the site, tired of the same negativity and cyclical posts.

You want to portray me as some power hungry, egotistical person who gets a kick out of using my moderating powers... go ahead. I know who I am and you know what I think of your negative outlook.

You keep making reference to ehMac's Terms's of Service and what not. Let me quote one of the first things it says in ehMac's Terms of Service:

ehMac sets out to be a positive online community for Canadian Mac users to discuss all things Mac. Once you register, you become a "New Neighbour" where you may begin participating in various forums and areas on the community such as "Anything Mac" and the "Everything Else" etc... After a certain level of involvement (30 posts), you automatically graduate to becoming a "Full ehMac Citizen". ehMac Citizens are encouraged to be a positive force in the community. ehMax, the community Mayor, frowns upon citizens who are extremely negative. ehMax may edit messages that contain offensive material. The mayor does really enjoy civil debates and lively discussions however! There's really just one main rule at ehMac: Be Nice!

Consider today's actions frowning on negativity.

Sigh. Offensive material?

The one who keeps getting messages from members of ehMac, both past and present, who are tired of the same people on ehMac always posting the same negativity.

I've gotten a lot of encouraging messages and emails of support today from the silent majority for standing up to the negativity that gets perpetuated all the time around here.

I've received negative, complaining emails from the same few members that complain all the time and always seem to be associated with issues.

I think a lot of good members have been turned away from the site, tired of the same negativity and cyclical posts.

You want to portray me as some power hungry, egotistical person who gets a kick out of using my moderating powers... go ahead. I know who I am and you know what I think of your negative outlook.

You keep making reference to ehMac's Terms's of Service and what not. Let me quote one of the first things it says in ehMac's Terms of Service:

Consider today's actions frowning on negativity.

Yeah and a few you have intentionally driven away lest we forget....

Sigh you just don't get it.. but I personally am going nowhere despite your invitations to do so as I have paid to be here... nice point of view coming from a Mayor... " If you don't like the way I run this town you can just leave"....

Real nice.....

BTW YOU are the one being negative by closing threads, moving them and deleting posts.

WE are trying to be constructive in terms of that, "not all change is good".... and offering our opinions to reflect that sentiment. if you aren't willing to at least listen the opinions of your constituents then maybe you should choose another career path.

Sigh. Offensive material?

Just ignore everything I just wrote, and nitpick on one particular unrelated point with a one line little witty negative quips. Very original. It's what gets you off isn't it?

Over the coming months, I'm going to work very hard at getting some new, fresh voices to compliment the many existing awesome members on ehMac, and hopefully drown out the ones that thrive on negativity and get their kicks out of being grouchy.

Will also evaluate the Like feature after several weeks of use and make changes adjustments based on feedback. I have a feeling the ability to turn off notifications will be added, but just want to use as is for now.

Sigh you just don't get it.. but I personally am going nowhere despite your invitations to do so as I have paid to be here... nice point of view coming from a Mayor... " If you don't like the way I run this town you can just leave"....

Real nice.....

BTW YOU are the one being negative by closing threads, moving them and deleting posts.

WE are trying to be constructive in terms of that, "not all change is good".... and offering our opinions to reflect that sentiment. if you aren't willing to at least listen the opinions of your constituents then maybe you should choose another career path.

You're absolutely right. I don't get it. Don't get the indignant outrage over a tiny little "like" feature that I ask to try just for awhile. Don't get the comparisons to an Egyptian dictator. Real nice.

How many times have I tried a feature, and either changed it or completely removed it based on feedback? Pretty much all the time. I just asked this time that we try the feature for awhile before submitting opinions. I've said, many times now, after we've tried it for a bit, I will make changes or scrap.

Have I been saying some harsh words today? Yes I have. Maybe, just maybe... they've been warranted. Some might even say, they're long overdue.

As I also said, working harder over the next few months to bring in some new fresh voices to ehMac to compliment the many existing positive voices on ehMac. Maybe a few that have left will come back as well.

Rather than trying to "invent" a new feature like the "like" feature, why not ask members what type of feature or improvemt they would like to see.

I for one find that the search feature doesn't work well at all.
I often get lots of results that have nothing to do with the search term while threads with the search terms are being missed.
That's especially noticeable if one tries to find a thread again - I know the thread is somewhere on ehMac but "search" just cannot find it.

For one, "search should give one the option to look for a specific keyword, not automatically also bring up all hits where the keyword is only part of the term.
Many of the forum search engines I use do that - one can select to look for the keyword only or look for terms where the keyword is part of the target.

Search should also not automatically decided to eliminate every three letter word in the search process, especially in a technical type of forum like ehMac where many three letter acronyms are used. Working around that by adding an * to let the search proceed doesn't work because of the problem mentioned earlier.
An easy temporary fix would be to allow three letter words of the word is all capitalized and stands on its own. That way searches for IDE, USB, DVI, VGA, etc. etc. would bring up results.


As to other improvements or new features - can't think of any off hand.
The EhMac forum actually works a lot better than most other forums I visit.

To answer your question about the search feature KRS, I'm told that having the search engine include 3 letter words is too taxing to the server / software with vBulletin. I can however, create a list of 3 letter words or less that I want included in the search engine, that are related to ehMac. Here is the currently list:

vb vbb php sql g5 g4 g3 mac hd cut u2 usb new ads x11 cgi os x 10 rss av pc xml tax ram 9 os9 cd tax gps tv

I have added DVI and VGA to the list. (Site will get re-indexed overnight before they work) If anyone else can think of other, I'll add them to the list.

All quiet on the western front.

Because things are the way they are, things will not stay the way they are. ~Bertold Brecht

it's just an internet forum.

agreed on the 3 letter searches, I've had that happen a few times with MBP, and a few others. If I encounter I'll send whatever didn't work.

If there's an add on for vb to use sphinx search it's more than worth the effort. No worrying about any word lengths, it's insanely fast and supports lots of awesome features that the vb search doesn't.

:D

x8eDyCRa0mY

Simple solution?

Give the option to hide the teeny-tiny "Like" feature only for the old, grumpy paid members.

For the rest of us (and I hate facebook too) give us an "Unlike" button. ;)

Oh! As mentioned, work on a better Search function.

Come to think of it, maybe all this fuss could have been avoided if ehMax called the "Like" feature "Agree". :D