I recently bought a MacBook Pro and have been planning to buy a Mac Pro to replace my Windows 7 computer when they become available.

However, I've recently been reading online that Apple has not licensed the BluRay technology and that while you can put a BluRay player in the case, there is no easy way to use it.

I've begun shooting high def footage with my Canon dSLRs and have been learning Final Cut Express with the expectation that I would be able to burn the completed movies to BluRay discs to watch on my TV. Is there a way to do this or should I be keeping my Win 7 desktop?

If you get a Blu-ray burner you should be able to BURN blu-rau discs.... through the new Toast. And you'd have to export the video file to the blu-ray format...which i think the new FCS does, but i'm not sure if final cut express does.

but there is no blu-ray PLAYBACK available through OS X.

Burning the discs is my priority; I watch BluRay movies on my TV. Can you elaborate a bit on what Toast is? I haven't heard of it.

If FC Express won't export to BluRay, I wonder what the work around is.

Roxio - DVD Burning Software - Easy VHS to DVD - DVD Decoder - Video Converter - CD Burning (http://www.roxio.com/)

If FCE doesn't do it, workaround would be either to export the most raw format possible and use another program to transcode, or upgrade to FCS.

Or switch to the Adobe equivalent to be able to run on windows where you'd have full support for burning and watching

I use Toast all the time and it's great. Read about it here:

Roxio Toast 10 Titanium - CD & DVD Burning for Mac (http://www.roxio.com/enu/products/toast/titanium/overview.html)

Thanks pcronin and SINC for the links to Toast. Although I haven't been a fan of Roxio products for Windows, this may be the best way to go on a Mac. It appears I can take a file from my Mac, import it into Toast and then burn to BluRay. Hope this will work as I'm really not interested in spending $1,200 for FC Studio just to be able to burn BluRays.

Surely I can't be the only Mac user who wants to edit their videos on a Mac and then view them in BluRay format on their High Def TV - I'm surprised Apple doesn't make this possible. It's relatively simple to maintain a high def workflow on Windows and I guess I just assumed it would be equally simple on a Mac. I'm a little disappointed that the salesman at Carbon Computing didn't tell me about this when I mentioned doing exactly this with him before buying my MBP.

Nope you're not the only one, and don't call me Shirley... (that joke doesn't work as well in print :P)

If Apple put BD drives in their machines, even if only to burn to, people would expect them to be able to play the BD movies they buy. Well, see many other threads about BD and playback ...

As for just burning large data or HD Video, any external (internal SATA on Pro towers) *should* be picked up by the Toast software.

Surely I can't be the only Mac user who wants to edit their videos on a Mac and then view them in BluRay format on their High Def TV.
FWIW I don't own a BluRay player nor do I plan to buy one. :eek:

For the last three years or so, I've been shooting HD video and editing said HD footage on my Mac with iMovie HD. I don't watch movies on a computer so BluRay is not needed or desired. To watch all the HD goodness I created on my big screen TV, I just I use my AppleTV. Not only that, but I can rent or own studio HD titles through iTunes, watch slide shows from iPhoto... wait a minute, I'm beginning to repeat myself:
1. stream all of my photos as organized in playlists from iPhoto and allow me to subscribe to friends' Flickr or .Mac (Mobile me) accounts to view their photos?
2. stream all of my homemade videos
3. stream my whole, Handbrake ripped, DVD collection as I've organized in playlists from iTunes
4. stream all of my music as organized in playlists from iTunes
5. allow me to watch any YouTube video
6. allow me to watch HD Podcasts
7. allow me to watch current HD movie trailers
8. allow me to browse, rent or buy HD Movies and TV Shows
9. allow me to browse, listen to samples and buy music from the world's largest online music store
10. allow me to browse and listen to 1000s of internet radio sations
11. (portability) take some or all of the above mentioned synched content stored on said device and easily connect to another Hi-Def TV without any overscan or underscan issues (I've had to do this when visiting older relatives who don't use the internet or even have a computer.)

And who knows, in the future (software) revisions, allow me to play games from the iTunes app store using my iPod Touch as a remote game pad.

Except that blu-Ray is 1080p and apple tv is 720p.

FWIW I don't own a BluRay player nor do I plan to buy one. :eek:

For the last three years or so, I've been shooting HD video and editing said HD footage on my Mac with iMovie HD. I don't watch movies on a computer so BluRay is not needed or desired. To watch all the HD goodness I created on my big screen TV, I just I use my AppleTV. Not only that, but I can rent or own studio HD titles through iTunes, watch slide shows from iPhoto... wait a minute, I'm beginning to repeat myself:

honestly, this has zero relevance to the OPs question.

there are a ton of options that allow you to stream video from a computer to a TV (and most will do it better than an apple TV). But they're not a blu-ray disc.

There's many advantages to a universal format on a compact disc media. i.e you can give the disc to friends and family.

Thanks all for the helpful comments. It looks like there is a way to make this work but it seems to me that Apple needs to adopt some of the newer technologies such as HDMI and BluRay and make things simpler for us. Maybe they will as the new Mini has HDMI.

pcronin - Shirley? Really? That old chestnut? I thought I was the only who still used that; no one ever laughs and I keep using it.

Count me in as one who thinks Apple's rejection of Blu-Ray on their computers is just as stupid as me not being able to use Flash on my iPhone. Geez Jobs, get with the program or retire already.

Thanks all for the helpful comments. It looks like there is a way to make this work but it seems to me that Apple needs to adopt some of the newer technologies such as HDMI and BluRay and make things simpler for us. Maybe they will as the new Mini has HDMI.

pcronin - Shirley? Really? That old chestnut? I thought I was the only who still used that; no one ever laughs and I keep using it.

I wouldn't describe Blu-Ray as a new technology, and Apple has certainly included HDMI on AppleTV starting several years ago. For what you're talking about, that is, playing your computer-made movies on your bigscreen HDTV, you may want to check out AppleTV. We have two just because they're so darn useful. If you can get it into iTunes, you can play it on your AppleTV. It's like a big screen iPod. As for me, I have a Blu-Ray player and I hardly use it, as I find the whole loading-time aspect annoying for watching a movie. I guess for my eyes, 720p is HD enough, and much faster loading.

I just picked up Fight Club and Constantine for $7.50 each on Blu-Ray. Neither are available on iTMS in HD, and they both cost more in SD; also picked up Kingdom of Heaven as well as Dogma for $9.99 ea.

I don't see a compelling reason to bother with AppleTV at this time. To me it looks like a big waste of money, for my spending/viewing habits: overpriced movies coupled with download caps—forget it. Now if the latest HDMI capable MacMini had a BR drive… I would have grabbed one as soon as they were on sale.

The omission of bluRay on Mac is very annoying at the very least. The Mac mini could easily be the best HTPC on the market if only osx would allow for BR playback. I know Jobs at one point said it was licensing hell, but get with the program ... If Dell can do it why not Apple. I understand what they are trying to do, which is leapfrog into the "next" video technology, being online delivery, but it's really not there yet, not by a longshot. The quality delivered in a BR is not something that online delivery can a achieve yet, and probably not for quite some time ... No one wants to download a 50G movie that will use up most or all of their monthly bandwidth cap!

The omission of bluRay on Mac is very annoying at the very least. The Mac mini could easily be the best HTPC on the market if only osx would allow for BR playback. I know Jobs at one point said it was licensing hell, but get with the program ... If Dell can do it why not Apple. I understand what they are trying to do, which is leapfrog into the "next" video technology, being online delivery, but it's really not there yet, not by a longshot. The quality delivered in a BR is not something that online delivery can a achieve yet, and probably not for quite some time ... No one wants to download a 50G movie that will use up most or all of their monthly bandwidth cap!

Can't argue with that ...

At least windows has 3rd party apps to play blu-ray disks ... I use PowerDVD on my HTPC running windows 7.

I haven't checked lately but does linux support blu-ray yet?

There is no true native Linux playback, but the are workarounds available that rewire you to use other tools to decrypt the disks and save them as iso files, then you can play them from there -- sort of, there's no support for the menu systems used on blurays. All in all Sony has done a good job of keeping this type of playback locked up pretty tight and requires the purchasing of licenses for anyone that wants to be able to play back this content. Again I'll say that I really really wish that Apple would just get it together and do this for all of us that would like to playback modern media formats .... It almost feels like being back in the early Mac os days when we couldn't do all the same stuff that windows users could do .... Maybe we need to take up some sort of online collection for Apple (like they really need the money to buy the license) ... But it might be enough to shame them into getting with the program so to speak.

An interesting discussion everyone, but my initial question remains essentially unanswered, I think.

Is it possible to burn a BluRay disk from Final Cut Express or is there another way to see 1080P video from my dSLRs, edited in FCE, on my Sony high def TV? I do have a Windows 7 notebook computer with a BluRay burner. Do I save out the file from FCE (is so, into what format) and then copy it onto a flash drive, copy that onto the Win 7 notebook and burn it there? Probably possible, but not exactly an elegant solution. What happened to Macs making everything you want to do simple?

Thanks.

An interesting discussion everyone, but my initial question remains essentially unanswered, I think.

What happened to Macs making everything you want to do simple?

It was answered ... do it in windows.

An interesting discussion everyone, but my initial question remains essentially unanswered, I think.

Is it possible to burn a BluRay disk from Final Cut Express or is there another way to see 1080P video from my dSLRs, edited in FCE, on my Sony high def TV? I do have a Windows 7 notebook computer with a BluRay burner. Do I save out the file from FCE (is so, into what format) and then copy it onto a flash drive, copy that onto the Win 7 notebook and burn it there? Probably possible, but not exactly an elegant solution. What happened to Macs making everything you want to do simple?

Thanks.

Either do it in Windows or -

Blu ray with final cut express 4 & Toast 10 - 2-Pop Forums (http://www.2-popforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=298257)

or

Final Cut 2 -> Toast 9 -> Blu Ray (on Dvd) -> Ps3 -- Working - Roxio Community (http://forums.support.roxio.com/topic/40330-final-cut-2-%26gt%3B-toast-9-%26gt%3B-blu-ray-on-dvd-%26gt%3B-ps3-working/)

or something in here might help.

final cut express blu ray - Google Search (http://www.google.ca/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=final+cut+express+blu+ray&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&redir_esc=&ei=MGYnTKzPKYqgnwfchpHiBQ)

It seems quite do-able, but you may have to buy a copy of Toast to get it done. Not as simple or elegant as it could be... but to get that simple and elegant Apple will have to start making Blu-Ray drives an option.

It was answered ... do it in windows.

Doesn't matter whether you do it in Windows or Mac, you still need to buy a Blu-ray USB drive to make it work using a Mac in either format.

Eggman,

Thanks for the links - it does look doable just not very simply, I guess. I was hoping my move from Windows to OSX would make life simpler and in many ways it does. Unfortunately, this doesn't seem to be one of them.

Maybe the new Mac Pro will have BluRay, although I suspect it won't.

I recently bought a MacBook Pro and have been planning to buy a Mac Pro to replace my Windows 7 computer when they become available.

However, I've recently been reading online that Apple has not licensed the BluRay technology and that while you can put a BluRay player in the case, there is no easy way to use it.

I've begun shooting high def footage with my Canon dSLRs and have been learning Final Cut Express with the expectation that I would be able to burn the completed movies to BluRay discs to watch on my TV. Is there a way to do this or should I be keeping my Win 7 desktop?

WIthout dancing between Windows 7 and Mac, and without buying a Blu-Ray burner - you could try the Toast HD DVD method (though this would mean buying Toast)... always the way - gotta buy something!:D

Toast 10 High-Def/Blu-ray Disc Plug-in - Overview (http://www.roxio.com/enu/products/toast/plugin/overview.html)

This should (if the ad copy is accurate - I have not tried this myself yet as I don't have an HD TV) allow you to see what your HD footage looks like on a disc.

High Definition on DVD!
You don't have a Blu-ray burner yet? No problem. With Toast 10 and the HD/BD plug-in you can burn high-def video content on standard DVD discs and play them back on your set-top Blu-ray Disc™ player! This is an innovative way to get between up to an hour of high-def content on affordable DVD media.

Has anyone out there tried this with a DVD? How good is it?

Eggman,

I too saw that on the Roxio site about using DVDs for high def content. I'm not sure how that works as I've always believed that DVDs are a maximum of 480 horizontal lines whereas full high def is 1080 lines and that only BluRay is capable of showing 1080P. I could be wrong though.

I fully expect to buy a BluRay burner and am also fine with buying some extra software to make it work, if needed. I don't want to watch BluRay on a Mac, I simply want to burn the BluRays.

An interesting discussion everyone, but my initial question remains essentially unanswered, I think.

Is it possible to burn a BluRay disk from Final Cut Express or is there another way to see 1080P video from my dSLRs, edited in FCE, on my Sony high def TV? I do have a Windows 7 notebook computer with a BluRay burner. Do I save out the file from FCE (is so, into what format) and then copy it onto a flash drive, copy that onto the Win 7 notebook and burn it there? Probably possible, but not exactly an elegant solution. What happened to Macs making everything you want to do simple?

Thanks.

if Blu-ray discs aren't critical to your needs and ALL you want to do is see 1080p content on your TV streamed from your computer there are several solutions. You can get a PS3 and use the free PS3 Media Server software to stream content from your computer. You'd have to save the HD video file in a format that the software can stream, but that shouldn't be too hard.

A similar solution would be the WDTV Live, which can also stream 1080p content from a computer (the advantage is no software needs to be running on the source computer).

The one caveat to both of these solutions is you really need a wired network connection to whatever is streaming 1080p content to your TV. Wireless connections can't really handle 1080p well.

But IMO you should research Roxio Toast more to see if it can convert HD video files into the proper blu-ray format for burning blu-ray discs....i know it can do it (convert various video formats into the proper video format) for dvds.

To see the true full resolution 1080p video streaming is not a viable solution as it woud have be considerably down sampled in order to stream, native BR H.264 formats can be upwards of 40 megabits/second.

^^shouldn't a gigabit connection be able to handle that?

In theory yes, in practice it doesn't work very well without some major tweaks at the switch level.

Eggman,

I too saw that on the Roxio site about using DVDs for high def content. I'm not sure how that works as I've always believed that DVDs are a maximum of 480 horizontal lines whereas full high def is 1080 lines and that only BluRay is capable of showing 1080P. I could be wrong though.

I fully expect to buy a BluRay burner and am also fine with buying some extra software to make it work, if needed. I don't want to watch BluRay on a Mac, I simply want to burn the BluRays.

I Remember when DVD first came out you could create a DVD image and burn it to a CD. Not many DVD players would support as the disc would have to spin too fast and you were limited to 25 minutes or less (of course home movies should not be longer than 25 minutes anyway : ). I thought this was a great idea and if BluRay players will support it that would rock.

The physical media does not determine the display quality. You could probably burn to a CD as well but would have only a few minutes and the disc would have to spin very fast.

I have to point out to SINC that what's stopping Blu-Ray (and Flash) from being supported by Apple is nothing on Apple's end. The problem is with the BR consortium and Adobe (respectively).

Jobs addressed both of these issues quite specifically at different points and said in both cases that Apple would be happy to support them.

I have to point out to SINC that what's stopping Blu-Ray (and Flash) from being supported by Apple is nothing on Apple's end. The problem is with the BR consortium and Adobe (respectively).

Jobs addressed both of these issues quite specifically at different points and said in both cases that Apple would be happy to support them.

That seems a bit odd. Sony, HP, Dell, Samsung, Panasonic, etc. are all able to support BluRay - is it some quirk of OSX that makes it more difficult or does Jobs/Apple want the consortium to change the standard to suit Apple?

I Remember when DVD first came out you could create a DVD image and burn it to a CD. Not many DVD players would support as the disc would have to spin too fast and you were limited to 25 minutes or less (of course home movies should not be longer than 25 minutes anyway : ). I thought this was a great idea and if BluRay players will support it that would rock.

The physical media does not determine the display quality. You could probably burn to a CD as well but would have only a few minutes and the disc would have to spin very fast.

You can indeed burn a DVD as if it were a blueray, your just limited to the data that can be stored on it. A friend of mine (using windows) burns HD content to DVD's and it plays fine in my PS3. He did not record at 1080p, but the restriction is really the size the formate can hold.

I dont understand why Apple has not put blueray players in there products, especially the iMac with the great big HD screen, seems like a no brainer.

The problem is with the BR consortium and Adobe (respectively).


Of course, Apple is both a member of and on the board of directors for the Blu-Ray Association. They are part of the problem on one side of the equation or the other. Diverting the blame to everyone else besides Apple is pretty blind.

If I had to guess, I'd say their resistance to Blu-Ray can be summarized with two points. One, there isn't a huge demand for it, from a consumer point of view, on the desktop. Two, they don't want Blu-Ray in the living room (ie Mac Mini) for the same reason they don't put a DVD-ROM in Apple TV, or even allow you to connect an external one - Welcome to the iTunes Store.

Of course, Apple is both a member of and on the board of directors for the Blu-Ray Association. They are part of the problem on one side of the equation or the other. Diverting the blame to everyone else besides Apple is pretty blind.

If I had to guess, I'd say their resistance to Blu-Ray can be summarized with two points. One, there isn't a huge demand for it, from a consumer point of view, on the desktop. Two, they don't want Blu-Ray in the living room (ie Mac Mini) for the same reason they don't put a DVD-ROM in Apple TV, or even allow you to connect an external one - Welcome to the iTunes Store.

Now that I can believe. It might impact their profits, therefore you can't have it. While I like my new MacBook Pro the more I learn about the way Apple does business and wants to control what we, the consumers, can do with their products and even how we access creative content, the less I like it.

Now that I can believe. It might impact their profits, therefore you can't have it. While I like my new MacBook Pro the more I learn about the way Apple does business and wants to control what we, the consumers, can do with their products and even how we access creative content, the less I like it.

Apple's business model isn't called a "closed system" for nothin'... ;)

You don't have to like everything about it but it shouldn't detract from all the truly great things they do. When you buy a sports car you really shouldn't think that you are going to be able to use it to haul a trailer with it. No one thing is going to do or be everything you might like it to do or be. You just have to decide on your wants and needs and go with the best compromise or get more than one thing to do all that you want, i.e. a sports car for going fast and a pickup for hauling the trailer. :)

Until people stop buying Macs because they don't have BlueRay there is absolutely no impetus from a business perspective for Apple to put them in their computers. Apple is riding high right now (they passed Microsoft in market value), so from their perspective it is a case of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it."

screature,

You're right, of course, Apple can run their business any way they see fit and considering how well they're doing these days, who can say they're wrong.

I've just come back from Carbon Computing and have discussed this and other issues with the very knowledgable people there. Overall, in the roughly 6 weeks since I bought my first Mac, I'm quite impressed with the way it works and the way all of the programs work together. Although I'm still learning it, I much prefer using Final Cut Express to Sony Vegas and want to be able to use it on a desktop machine. Unless there is a new Mac Pro announced tomorrow, I'm planning to order a 27" i7 iMac and complete the switch to Mac.

There are workarounds for this BluRay issue and others as well, no doubt. However, life would be simpler if Apple would embrace HDMI and BluRay.

So you think that being able to play a bluray is like hauling a trailer? I'd consider more akin to a sports car in your analogy ... Not being able to play modern hi def media makes the macs more like old clunkers than sports cars. Yes you can EDIT hi def media but if you want to play it back in an industry standard format you need windows. That is totally lame IMHO.

@chas_m: got any links to back up your statement that apple has addressed the bluray playback? The only public statement I remember is that "the licensing is a bag of hurt" ... But somehow Microsoft has managed it, as well as hundreds of hardware manufacturers ... The bag of hurt statement sounds like a cop out to me, that Steve is worried that it would eat into their massively overpriced and under quality video downloads, which have, by the way, completely let me down on my current trip. Downloading many gigabytes worth of material only to find out that they don't work and that my only recourse would be to re purchase them is even more lame!

DIS Ottawa, maybe you can fill in the details, but I'm not sure why this thread has gone on for 4 pages when you were given a solution in the first page. Get an external Blu-Ray burner and a copy of Toast. Doesn't this solve your problem?

Hayesk,

Yes, you're right that is one solution. However, there can be more than one solution to a problem and apparently others consider this an interesting discussion and have kept it going. Consider it as being similar to a conversation where one topic naturally leads to another.

So you think that being able to play a bluray is like hauling a trailer? I'd consider more akin to a sports car in your analogy ... Not being able to play modern hi def media makes the macs more like old clunkers than sports cars. Yes you can EDIT hi def media but if you want to play it back in an industry standard format you need windows. That is totally lame IMHO.

@chas_m: got any links to back up your statement that apple has addressed the bluray playback? The only public statement I remember is that "the licensing is a bag of hurt" ... But somehow Microsoft has managed it, as well as hundreds of hardware manufacturers ... The bag of hurt statement sounds like a cop out to me, that Steve is worried that it would eat into their massively overpriced and under quality video downloads, which have, by the way, completely let me down on my current trip. Downloading many gigabytes worth of material only to find out that they don't work and that my only recourse would be to re purchase them is even more lame!

The point is mg, one should know what you are buying before one buys it and if it doesn't meet your needs/wants... don't buy it. I don't think it should be difficult for someone as intelligent as yourself to understand and appreciate.

The analogy of the sports car and truck was merely meant to illustrate the differences between product offerings and their abilities or lack there of (and I never indicated that the sports car was analogous to Macs, that was your interpretation). They both have their place and capabilities, but no one thing is likely to be all things to everyone at once. Could Macs have BlueRay? Sure. Apple at this point in time chooses not to include BR in their in their offerings. If this is a deal breaker for someone then move on or buy a Mac and a BR player/recorder and the appropriate software and use BootCamp and or virtualization.

Sure you can wish it was otherwise and criticize Apple for being "behind the times" but it doesn't create a solution for the problem at hand.

I never imagined that my complaining on a forum would provide a solution ;). Just stating an opinion. Macs used to be top of their class for both media production and consumption but they are falling behind is the point I'm trying to make. That and the fact that we're being force fed that the downloadable hi def video (which they don't even support on Mac pros) is "good enough" -- and the video is barely hi definition in the first place. Steve once made the comment that macs and apple products should be the hub of our digital lifestyle but that's pretty hard to achieve with glaring omissions like this. Hi def video has taken a huge backseat on ALL Apple products, both computer and handheld. Not so much the hub for a modern digital consumer, huh?

The point is mg, one should know what you are buying before one buys it and if it doesn't meet your needs/wants... don't buy it.

Well if your sold on the hype ... no blu-ray support can be lunchbag let down.

Well if your sold on the hype ... no blu-ray support can be lunchbag let down.

This is supposed to make some sort of sense?? :confused:

This is supposed to make some sort of sense?? :confused:

If you buy on blind faith thinking Apple will provide ... the letdown is when you find out they don't ...

I hope your less confused ...

If you buy on blind faith thinking Apple will provide ... the letdown is when you find out they don't ...

I hope your less confused ...

I think you are little (to say the least) off base in thinking that I have blind faith in Apple let alone any company... never said anything to indicate this.

I merely stated you should know what you are buying before you buy it and its inherent limitations...

And if "YOU buy on blind faith thinking Apple will provide"... then you should do your homework before laying down your cash. ;)

Seems like you just came here to be a troll and a provocateur... Now tell me how is one supposed to get form your initial post what you say it is supposed to mean?

Well if your sold on the hype ... no blu-ray support can be lunchbag let down.

Perhaps English is not your first language and if that is the case, then I can understand, otherwise you need to bone up on your communication skills.

BTW, "your", in the context you were using it, is spelled "you're". I hope you're less confused. ;)

I never imagined that my complaining on a forum would provide a solution ;). Just stating an opinion. Macs used to be top of their class for both media production and consumption but they are falling behind is the point I'm trying to make. That and the fact that we're being force fed that the downloadable hi def video (which they don't even support on Mac pros) is "good enough" -- and the video is barely hi definition in the first place. Steve once made the comment that macs and apple products should be the hub of our digital lifestyle but that's pretty hard to achieve with glaring omissions like this. Hi def video has taken a huge backseat on ALL Apple products, both computer and handheld. Not so much the hub for a modern digital consumer, huh?

There is HD video without BlueRay, remember 1080i and 720p? These are both HD and my Mini handles them both just fine.

Yea but the only way you can get commercial HD video is through a download (or creating it yourself). It is the only delivery method that Apple supports, and that is my biggest complaint. I can't walk into a store and buy a HD video that will play on any of my macs. It's not about 720p vs 1080i vs 1080p or 1080p24. Apple provides a poor facsimile of what the quality can be, but that's not a surprise as with their music offerings it's much the same :/.

I think you are little (to say the least) off base in thinking that I have blind faith in Apple let alone any company... never said anything to indicate this.

I merely stated you should know what you are buying before you buy it and its inherent limitations...

And if "YOU buy on blind faith thinking Apple will provide"... then you should do your homework before laying down your cash. ;)

Seems like you just came here to be a troll and a provocateur... Now tell me how is one supposed to get form your initial post what you say it is supposed to mean?

Perhaps English is not your first language and if that is the case, then I can understand, otherwise you need to bone up on your communication skills.

BTW, "your", in the context you were using it, is spelled "you're". I hope you're less confused. ;)

Troll and a provocateur eh ... I don't remember attacking you.
Just because I don't agree with you, no reason to start with this.

Troll and a provocateur eh ... I don't remember attacking you.
Just because I don't agree with you, no reason to start with this.

You can disagree all you want, no problem s with that, it is the manner in which you choose to do it. I've seen some of your other posts to long time members here that were certainly less than respectful, it isn't just me. You reap what you sow.

You can disagree all you want, no problem s with that, it is the manner in which you choose to do it. I've seen some of your other posts to long time members here that were certainly less than respectful, it isn't just me. You reap what you sow.

Well glad to meet the inforcer ... I will be better prepared to address your misleading posts in the future now that name calling can be added to the mix. Should make things really homey ...

Well glad to meet the inforcer ... I will be better prepared to address your misleading posts in the future now that name calling can be added to the mix. Should make things really homey ...

Respect is a two way street and when you are disrespectful to another long time member for basically no reason and start making assumptions about them and this place, as a relatively new member, it doesn't sit very well. Then when you decide to take on that approach with me, sorry I'm not a turn the other cheek kinda guy.

What misleading posts? Care to refer to them?

Also I never called you a name, I said:

Seems like you just came here to be a troll and a provocateur

"Seems like", doesn't mean I am calling you either of those things, it simply means that is my impression of some of the posts I have seen by you.

However, you started name calling (or at the very least being disrespectful) back some time ago with krs... it was pointed out to you and you continued on that track none-the-less. Insulting long time members isn't exactly the manner in which to go about receiving a warm welcome. Do unto to others... and you will be welcomed with open arms, start picking fights within your first few dozen posts and as has already been said... you reap what you sow.

This is a very "homey" place when you treat people how you would like to be treated... ;)

Happy to wipe the slate clean at this point and start over. Peace out. :)