Hi,

I have an iMac and Airport Extreme base station upstairs in the den. Downstairs in the rec room I have a 46" LCD HDTV.

I'd like three things.

1. I'd like to rent movies from iTMS (can't in Canada); and buy/rent American TV shows from iTMS (can't in Canada)

2. I'd like to be able to watch video files in the rec room that are on my iMac. (Currently I burn them to a DVD and watch them on my DIVX-capable DVD player, but the image quality ain't great.)

3. I'd like to be able to browse the web from my rec room

Trying to decide if I want an Apple TV or something else (like a Mac Mini). Here's my thinking:

Apple TV, PROs: awesome interface, HDMI out, can stream video files from my iMac or a hard drive on my Airport Extreme base station.

Apple TV, CONs: no movie rentals in Canada yet, no American TV shows in iTunes store in Canada yet, have to convert DIVX files to Apple TV compatible format, cannot browse the web with it

Mac Mini, PROs: can use Front Row to watch video files, can use Safari to browse the web in my rec room

Mac Mini, CONs: more expensive, no HDTV and 5.1 audio out

So my questions are:

Q1. is there any chance that Apple TV will provide me with access to the Safari web browser any time soon?

Q2. is the video output on a Mac Mini to my 46" LCD good enough; or is it crap compared to the HDMI out on Apple TV?

Q3. will iTunes store sell America TV shows in Canada soon?

Q4. will iTunes store rent movies in Canada soon?

Q5. will Apple TV support DIVX files soon?

Q6. if I buy an Apple TV will I regret getting the 40Gig version?

Q7. if I buy an Apple TV will I regret it because there's going to be a new PVR version of Apple TV next year?

ANY HELP OR OPINIONS ARE GREATLY APPRECIATED! THANKS,

slegge

Hi,

Mac Mini, CONs: more expensive, no HDTV and 5.1 audio out

slegge

These "CONs" aren't accurate. The Mini does have a mini TOSlink s/pdif digital audio out port so all you have to do is plug into a digital in on your receiver and you have 5.1 surround. This is what I do, it works great. The Mini has DVI-D output which all you need to connect to an HDTV with HDMI in is buy a DVI to HDMI cable, they aren't that expensive. This is what I do, it works great.

As for the rest of your questions they are pretty much speculative so to base any buying decisions on that would not really be advisable. Buy for what the products are now. Who knows what either of them will be in the future.

I am very biased on this issue, I will say from the start. To me the Mini is the way to go, much greater flexibility for what you can do with it; internet, games, Garage Band, etc. Plus with Apple TV you are restricted to file types that iTunes supports, so no TS_video files for example.

The picture output from the Mini to my HD Toshiba is great and I know of many others who feel the same. If you are really interested in using a Mini for a mutlimedia server go 123Macmini.com - A Mac Mini User Community (http://123macmini.com) there you will find a host of information and people's real world experiences with using the Mini for what you are considering.

Good luck and have fun.

Thanks screature, very helpful!

Do you think the Mac Mini's DVI out will give me as good an HD picture quality as the HDMI (or component video) out on the Apple TV?

I'm thinking specifically about 720p (or future 1080p) movies that I might eventually rent from iTMS.

Also, if I look for a second hand Mac Mini, what is the minimum video hardware I should settle for?

Thanks again.

No contest. Get the Mini. The AppleTV is like a computer with a serious lobotomy. The ATV is too 'closed system' for my tastes. The only way an ATV is worth anything is if you plan to do ALL your media through iTunes. Otherwise, in the immortal words of Dire Straits (if out of context) it is 'money for nothing'. The Mini can do everything the ATV can do and so much more.

Just my $0.02Cdn...

YMMV ;)

Thanks rgray,

What about the picture quality issue? Apple TV is touted as a home theatre device so my perception is its HDMI and digital audio out will be superior for hidef movies than the Mac Mini's "home computer" oriented output technology.

Opinions?

I just went through this process.

I had my daughter's Mini connected to my tv while she was away over March Break. Worked great, although it isn't the best for surfing the web - unless you magnify the fonts, etc much larger.
Still, as others have pointed out, it works very well.
And yes, I went from mini-DV to DVI from the Mini and connected it to a DVI to HDMI cable. Very crisp picture.

When she came back from holidays, she took her Mini back.

I bought an Apple TV. Why? I couldn't afford the extra cash.

I set up an American account, and I love it! Yes, everything has to stream from iTunes, but that's not a big deal for me. I still love it! I'm renting movies, watching american shows we don't get here, watching podcasts, listening to my music, etc. through the ATV. Very pleased with the purchase.

So ... I'm guessing it doesn't help you much, lol ... if you can afford it, the Mini is probably the better way (don't forget the wireless keyboard and mouse). But, you wont be disappointed with the ATV (as long as you set up a US account)

Thanks screature, very helpful!

Also, if I look for a second hand Mac Mini, what is the minimum video hardware I should settle for?

Thanks again.

Not sure what you are asking here, could you elaborate? Do you mean on the Mini?

I'll add another vote for the mini. I went through the same decision process a while back and went with a mini and don't regret it at all. Having used Apple tv's on a few occasions since then I love having the mini in my setup all that much more. The apple tv is too limiting for my needs.

Thanks rgray,

What about the picture quality issue? Apple TV is touted as a home theatre device so my perception is its HDMI and digital audio out will be superior for hidef movies than the Mac Mini's "home computer" oriented output technology.

Opinions?

No, actually "computer" outputs are higher in resolution (generally speaking) than TVs. With the advent of 1080p for TVs they are catching up to monitors. The mini will have every bit as good a picture as the Apple TV

I forgot to mention above one thing that is important to me. I already own a pile of DVDs. The 'frequent fliers' are ripped, but there are a lot of others that I don't watch often enough to bother ripping. Why is this important? Because you can't stick a DVD into an ATV! You can in a Mini. Seems to me this is a huge oversight - Steve's way or no way!

Sometimes media entertainment is group web surfing - no way with an ATV. Sometimes you want to keep up with email while being entertained - no way with an ATV.

With a Mini type setup one can run, say, an F1 race and have the live timing on the same screen - similar for other sporting events. Can't do that on an ATV.

You can hook up EyeTV to a Mini, but as far as I know and I am prepared to be corrected, this can't be done on an ATV - there is lots of stuff on regular TV that I want to watch..... once.... but would never bother to buy. Easy on a Mini.

A Mini can be controlled from my MBA by VNC - a super remote of sorts which far exceeds the ATV's remote....

Another $0.02Cdn.....

I'll throw my vote in for Apple TV.

Single coolest out-of-the-box experience I've had with an Apple product.

For $249 brand new or $209 refurb..... it's cool, it's Apple, and it's cheap.

Yes, you have to use iTunes for your media management. Is that really an issue? FFMpeg, Virtualdub, many good Divx to MP4 converters available. You need to convert these files to play on an iPod anyway. Might aswell have everything in one place, organized.

The interface is awesome. And easy. Whole family can use it easily. No explaining needed.

I'm sure video rentals will come to Canada. But for now I love being able to show family the Iphoto library on the TV.

Ed

I'm going to throw a couple of points towards the AppleTV, because we have one and I am speaking from experience here. I wouldn't argue against the mini any day, but I don't own one, so I can only say what can be done with the AppleTV. I'd say they're both great solutions, and the final decision always rests with the person whose spending the money...

Hi,

Q1. is there any chance that Apple TV will provide me with access to the Safari web browser any time soon?

This can easily be arranged right now, if you're just willing to do some hacking. See appletvhacks.net for all the information you'll need.


Q2. is the video output on a Mac Mini to my 46" LCD good enough; or is it crap compared to the HDMI out on Apple TV?

I'm not sure exactly, but I don't think the mini's output is crap by any stretch of the imagination - I'd say they're likely comparable around the 720p mark.


Q3. will iTunes store sell America TV shows in Canada soon?

Not known, but again, very easily arranged right now with an American iTunes gift certificate card - tons of resources on these forums on how to do that - simply buy one on eBay or wherever, and "redeem" it on iTunes, and you'll be able to set up an American account sans credit card and spend away - buy, rent, do whatever you want - no problem


Q4. will iTunes store rent movies in Canada soon?

Same answer as above. You can do it right now.


Q5. will Apple TV support DIVX files soon?

AppleTVhacks.net provides a simple solution to activate DIVX playback, as well as WMV, XVID, etc. Same goes for installing a full version of the OS - which allows use of Safari, etc. Yes, it's a slower processor, etc, but I've seen it being used and it's just fine for surfing, etc. Also, a previous poster mentioned AppleTV's inability to play VIDEO_TS files - true, but if you don't mind a quick Handbrake session, you can quickly (about 45 minutes for me) rip any DVD's VIDEO_TS files to a high quality mp4 file, and move it straight to iTunes and stream it to your AppleTV any time you want. We have backed up over 35 of our DVDs this way - they're just sitting on our computer and we can stream them any time we want to watch them without ever having to bother with the disc again. Just a thought.


Q6. if I buy an Apple TV will I regret getting the 40Gig version?

Depends on how much you need to put on the hard drive - we only store our pictures and some music on it and stream all videos/movies from iTunes so none of our movies (except a couple of kids movies) are stored on the AppleTV. We have not run out of room. Again, appletvhacks.net provides step by step instructions on how to a) put in a bigger drive or b) share a drive if you require it - OR buy the bigger HD one.


Q7. if I buy an Apple TV will I regret it because there's going to be a new PVR version of Apple TV next year?

I wouldn't know which way to speculate on this one - sorry.

I also agree with smashedbanana - excellent, excellent out of the box experience. And the interface allows my kid to pull up any of her movies in seconds, which is a bonus. Of course Front Row is no joke on the mini either. Not sure about hooking up an EyeTV to an AppleTV - that's a good question from another previous poster... anyone know this?

Not sure what you are asking here, could you elaborate? Do you mean on the Mini?

What I mean is, over the years the graphics in Mac Minis was improved (as in all computer models). I seem to recall older Minis have very basic integrated Intel graphic hardware, but newer models have better ATI graphics hardware.

I understand that computers have been outputing at 1600x1080 for years, and HD tv (1080p) is only recently catching up to that. But I thought there might be issues related to the Mini's ability to do full screen tv/movie playback as well as Apple TV -- all that refreshing while processing video and so on.

If I look for a used Mac Mini, is there a minimum level of graphics hardware I should accept? Considering I want it primarily for movie/tv playback.

What I mean is, over the years the graphics in Mac Minis was improved (as in all computer models). I seem to recall older Minis have very basic integrated Intel graphic hardware, but newer models have better ATI graphics hardware.

I understand that computers have been outputing at 1600x1080 for years, and HD tv (1080p) is only recently catching up to that. But I thought there might be issues related to the Mini's ability to do full screen tv/movie playback as well as Apple TV -- all that refreshing while processing video and so on.

If I look for a used Mac Mini, is there a minimum level of graphics hardware I should accept? Considering I want it primarily for movie/tv playback.

Oh Ok. I would look for a MacIntel Mini not a G4, I had a G4 it was fine but no where near as fast as the dual core Minis not to mention you can put in more RAM and the Ethernet is Gigabit not 100mbit/s. This was important to me as I wanted to be able to use a gigabit NAS to stream my videos to the Mini. Just a note, a comment from ZRXer suggested that the Mini was perhaps only capable of 720p output, in fact it is capable of 1080p output.

I would look for a refurb on the Apple site for a MacIntel Mini Dual Core or Core 2 Duo. The former will be less expensive and serve you just fine that is what I have. You will have to act fast once you see one that you want as the go very fast, check out some other threads here, other people are trying to buy them as well, the refurbs are in great demand. The best time to buy in Eastern Canada is early in the am around 7 or 8 as they are gone later in the day. If you at first you don't succeed try, try again. There are always more being put up on Apples site, just not many at a time and they go really fast.

Good luck.

The mini will have every bit as good a picture as the Apple TV
Except for possible under scan issues.

I vote for the AppleTV as well, especially if you own or plan to own an iPod Video/iPod Touch. iTunes is the way to organize your content.

How did I know screature would be the first to respond to this thread. ;) For some entertaining reading regarding the Mini/AppleTV debate, click here (http://www.ehmac.ca/anything-mac/61366-would-connecting-my-imac-t-v-hdmi-give-me-clear.html).

Thanks for all the useful input from everyone.

I've decided to go look for an Apple TV. Mainly because I think what's I'm really looking for is a dedicated rec room movie/tv watching device rather than a full blow computer in that room.

The tip on renting HD movies with a US iTunes gift card is awesome (thanks ZRXer!). I'll have to drive down to the states (about an hour away) and pick one up at Wal-Mart.

I'm going to post another thread (http://www.ehmac.ca/ipod-itunes-iphone-apple-tv/63004-where-get-apple-tv-cheaper-than-apple-ca.html#post654972) asking where I might get an Apple TV cheaper than on apple.ca -- please join me there!

Thanks again everyone.

Except for possible under scan issues.

I vote for the AppleTV as well, especially if you own or plan to own an iPod Video/iPod Touch. iTunes is the way to organize your content.

How did I know screature would be the first to respond to this thread. ;) For some entertaining reading regarding the Mini/AppleTV debate, click here (http://www.ehmac.ca/anything-mac/61366-would-connecting-my-imac-t-v-hdmi-give-me-clear.html).

Yeah you could have bet on that eh? :D

As far as the underscan issue goes what I do is I set the display mode to overscan when watching Movies and such and then use the keyboard to enter into full screen on DVD Player etc. Works great then when I am finished watching I just go back into display properties and uncheck overscan. No probs.

The AppleTV is too limiting.

Get a Mac Mini ($649 CDN). Get a large external HD (for archiving content). Get an Elgato EyeTV Hybrid (for setting up the Mac mini as a PVR).

Starts ripping your DVDs to your HD. You'll then have access to your video library through Front Row.

No contest. Get the Mini. The AppleTV is like a computer with a serious lobotomy. The ATV is too 'closed system' for my tastes.

The AppleTV is an iPod for your TV.
The MacMini is a Mac for your TV.

When you think of it that way, it helps to make the decision easier. For me, I am going to get an AppleTV when I get an HDTV. I'd get an AppleTV today if it had an S-Video port. My 32" standard definition Sony Trinitron has a few more years of life left in it.

The AppleTV is too limiting.

Get a Mac Mini ($649 CDN). Get a large external HD (for archiving content). Get an Elgato EyeTV Hybrid (for setting up the Mac mini as a PVR).

Starts ripping your DVDs to your HD. You'll then have access to your video library through Front Row.

Uhm... you could do that with AppleTV too as long as you already own a Mac. Just put the HD and EyeTV on your Mac instead. Then EyeTV will automatically compress for AppleTV format and add the content to your iTunes for sharing to your AppleTV.