The new Amerika (http://homepage.mac.com/apexgrin/FileSharing2.html)

Before I download 15 MBs of video, can you tell me what it's about first?

Facism in Utah...Veilllyyy...Intelesting Conrad,
Actually it looks like a field party and the neighbours were trying to sleep.

Fashism in the USA is when you have a NAFTA agreement with Canada and the
USA keeps screwing them, Or a SHAFTA agreement with Venezuela and they screw the USA,
Which I am in total agreement that they should...Screw the USA. :D :D :D

I am not sure what I just saw. I watched it twice but could not figure out where this was taking place, what they were doing wrong, why the troops were called in, and if these were federal troops or national guardsmen.

Is there no story to go with this video. I'd be willing to comment on it, if I had more to go on. A field party being busted up doesn't in itself, justify a charge of Fascism.

What?
It's all over the internet!!! Don't you know about this MAJOR news event!!!!
;)
Link to story:

http://kutv.com/topstories/local_story_235151602.html

:D

ErnstNL, thanks for the link. Not quite like Woodstock or the Rod Stewart "Rock on the Rock" down in Quidi Vidi.

Yeah Dr. G., not a real pawty like here on the rock.
It seemed like a pretty tame rave from the amateur videos.
Why aren't we chilled or disgusted about these things anymore? Just like the 60's.

The other stories in the link seemed more interesting.
Polygamy, son meets sperm donor dad etc...

Utah is a strange state anyway. ;)

ErnstNL, I was at Woodstock, and there was no real problems even with over 500,000 people. That is the population of the Newfoundland part of our province of Newfoundland and Labrador..............all on Yasker's farm.

Is there no story to go with this video. I'd be willing to comment on it, if I had more to go on. A field party being busted up doesn't in itself, justify a charge of Fascism.

military troops called in to break up a "party?"
with fatigues and m-16s and everything

might as well be Mosul, Iraq

if you think that the military should be in the business of breaking up loud music parties being held by kids out of doors, then I guess that the charge of fascism isn't justified

[shakes head]

all a bit too "law and order" for my taste

ErnstNL, I was at Woodstock, and there was no real problems even with over 500,000 people.
Except there weren't enough toilets to go around.

military troops called in to break up a "party?"
with fatigues and m-16s and everything

might as well be Mosul, Iraq

if you think that the military should be in the business of breaking up loud music parties being held by kids out of doors, then I guess that the charge of fascism isn't justified

[shakes head]

all a bit too "law and order" for my tasteWas not military, if you go to the link, you would have known it was police in SWAT gear.
Still pretty heavy handed though. But police, not military, Big Difference!

The Woodstock hero was the Port-o-San man.

i listened to the video and didn't hear anyone identifying themselves as police
those uniforms and guns sure looked liked military, especially if i was there and a young kid

good thing that none of the kids tried to run away or maybe they would have taken 5 in the head after being wrestled to the ground
or
does that only happen in Great Britain?

i listened to the video and didn't hear anyone identifying themselves as police
those uniforms and guns sure looked liked military, especially if i was there and a young kid

good thing that none of the kids tried to run away or maybe they would have taken 5 in the head after being wrestled to the ground
or
does that only happen in Great Britain?Kent State? Not so long ago!

lpkmckenna, not enough toilets and fresh drinking water to go around.

Well, if you go and get dressed up in that gear, you ain't going there to ask politely. Those boys just couldn't wait for an excuse to power trip.

Bunch of wimp yahoos beating up on kids because they need an excuse to be macho...

Let them go to Iraq and be macho. LOL!

Macspectrum: The facts would be nice in this instance... it is the police, in SWAT gear, I believe -- they were monitoring the rave (legally set up as it was) where underage minors using alcohol and/or selling illicit drugs (you can hear the dogs in the background.) The kids that were shoved to the ground refused to disperse (and gave the police a taste of their youthful 'tude) and were immediately arrested for not complying... of approx. Out of 1500 people, 60 or so rave attendees (and security) were arrested (if I recall.)

http://p2pnet.net/story/6011

About 90 law enforcement officers from multiple agencies broke up what they said was a rave party on public and private property in the Diamond Fork area of Spanish Fork canyon," says kutv.com.

"Utah County sheriff's Sergeant Darren Gilbert says they made about 60 arrests for weapons offenses, driving under the influence, underage drinking, drug possession and distribution, resisting arrest, assault on a police officer and disorderly conduct."

I don't know about you, but here is nice little Canada, the Hells Angels (and other bike clubs of notoriety) have permeated practically ever rave (at least in Ottawa/Montreal from what I've read and seen) and have taken drug selling and violence to a whole new level. Most people never know because they don't necessarily wear their colours openly when attending such events.

Imagine what it would be like in the good ol' U.S.A.

lpkmckenna, not enough toilets and fresh drinking water to go around.
If I had nowhere to go to the bathroom, I might stop drinking water altogether. ;)

Jeez Manny, you don't give me the impression of being as 'straight' as those posts make you sound.

I've drank when underage and went to plenty of parties where there was more than just booze going around...and that goes for most here as well. ;)

Jeez Manny, you don't give me the impression of being as 'straight' as those posts make you sound.

I've drank when underage and went to plenty of parties where there was more than just booze going around...and that goes for most here as well. ;)

kps, and your parties never were invaded (i mean "liberated") by para military types in fatigues and brandishing m-16s?

Seeing as how most raves are held in the middle of nowhere, not a rented hall... and that they had enough reasons to shut it down: weapons, drugs, minors with alcohol etc. Forget the fact that the organizers hadn't been able to follow the basic guidelines for organizing an even (as part of the agreement with getting a permit for such an event), but to top it off, several members of the "security" were arrested for illegal activities.

~

Not that it's relevant, but yes, I did a lot of underage drinking in my time, but I however did not organize an event where I had been negligent in my duties to provide a suitable environment where it would restrict illegal drug and/or alcohol use with minors.

MacSpectrum: If you worked for the police force and were sent to disperse a crowd of 1500 people (some of which are drug peddlers and/or drug users, not to mention people under the influence of alcohol) with a team of 90 police officers...would you prefer Tazers?

It may seem strange to a Canadian, but when your in Utah, they may very well not use the standard Black uniform for the SWAT... being in the middle of the wilderness and all...

and so just what were the helicopters for? air support in case the kids launched a counter offensive?

and why did the "cop" tell the kid to turn off the camera?
afraid of a little proof of police brutality?

would the cop tell a reporter to "turn off the camera?"

those cops seemed all jacked up on adrenalin and it would not have taken much to "raise the stakes" to the point where someone may have been killed

if you don't think that's a believalbe scenario, check out Kent State

those cops seemed all jacked up on adrenalin and it would not have taken much to "raise the stakes" to the point where someone may have been killed

Seemed? Is that the best you can come up with?

Like I said before -- it's in the middle of nowhere UTAH. Why else would a helicopter be hover with a spotlight at night... oops.

Because maybe it's dark?
Maybe it's because criminals flee?

But I guess logic is out the window when you swim in pretension.

I think comparing it to Kent State is a bit of a stretch, but what the f#$% where they thinking when they issued the permit in the first place. Were they that naive? I mean really, it's a rave...there will be drinking, there will be underage people, there will be illicit drugs. It's not like this was the first rave ever organized.

The whole thing seems like a disaster from the get go.

if you don't think that's a believalbe scenario, check out Kent State

Oh yeah, that's right! I totally forgot about that -- they were having a rave then, as well. In the middle of the Utah. With drugs. And weapons. And minors with access to alcohol. Protesting. http://www.macmagic.ca/macmagic/graemlins/laughing.gif

Oh yeah, that's right! I totally forgot about that -- they were having a rave then, as well. In the middle of the Utah. With drugs. And weapons. And minors with access to alcohol. Protesting. http://www.macmagic.ca/macmagic/graemlins/laughing.gif

no, it was worse
they were peacefully demonstrating in broad daylight on a university campus AND still people died

i can ony imagine how lucky those Utah kids were not to have anything more serious happen to them

i noticed you didn't address why the "cop" ordered the kid to turn off the camera
if the "cops" were doing the right thing, what did he have to be afraid of, except maybe the truth?

obviously you don't have a problem using draconian techniques to dish out "law and order" and i obviously do

it looks like the terrorists are winning

I think comparing it to Kent State is a bit of a stretch, but what the f#$% where they thinking when they issued the permit in the first place. Were they that naive? I mean really, it's a rave...there will be drinking, there will be underage people, there will be illicit drugs. It's not like this was the first rave ever organized.

The whole thing seems like a disaster from the get go.

People always scream bloody murder when they don't get their way, so allow them to do it legally and know what, when and where the whole thing was going to happen so one of two scenarios would take place:

1) They would allow it because they believed the organizers could facilitate and accomodate the venue with the necessary security (which they didn't) and make sure people weren't doing anything they shouldn't (which they didn't.)

or

2) They thought they would go through the motions of allowing them to organize the event so the police could monitor the activities in order to prevent potential deaths that would result from: a) dehydration from using ecstacy; b) violence; c) overdose of drugs/alcohol; d) prevent minors from breaking the law.

Clearly, they allowed the venue to go on for quite some time before moving in... 1,500 people don't just show up all at once. Also, I don't believe any event can be completely secure from unwanted violence and criminal activity... but there is a reason why raves are organized out in the middle of nowhere. And it's not to commune with nature by any means.

i can ony imagine how lucky those Utah kids were not to have anything more serious happen to them

Luck had nothing to do with it... especially when you claim the police seemed to be on a adreneline rush.

i noticed you didn't address why the "cop" ordered the kid to turn off the camera
if the "cops" were doing the right thing, what did he have to be afraid of, except maybe the truth?

What truth? That kids were evading arrest? Refusing to comply with police? Or the fact that when people see a kid on the ground fighting with police that they assume the cops are beating the **** out of them?

obviously you don't have a problem using draconian techniques to dish out "law and order" and i obviously do

Yes, let's use pea shooters to control 1500 people... who may or may not be under the influence of illicit narcotics.

it looks like the terrorists are winning

No, **** like this has been happening prior to any recent terrorist attacks on America. You just choose to put this situation under the microscope and exploit it for your own personal beliefs -- you didn't even consider to look outside the video to get a better view of the story... just relied on one source -- a 30 second video titled 'facism.'

Gee... no muddy waters there, eh? ;)

Clearly, they allowed the venue to go on for quite some time before moving in... 1,500 people don't just show up all at once. Also, I don't believe any event can be completely secure from unwanted violence and criminal activity... but there is a reason why raves are organized out in the middle of nowhere. And it's not to commune with nature by any means.


About 90 law enforcement officers from multiple agencies broke up what they said was a rave party on public and private property in the Diamond Fork area of Spanish Fork canyon," says kutv.com.

I don't dispute your points, but it takes time to mobilize such a force, especially form 'multiple agencies' and it takes time to get a chopper in the air. So it's not like they didn't know they were going to bust it up. I smell a rat. Why wasn't police presence stipulated as part of the permit? Were the organizers experienced in putting on such a venue? Do they just issue a permit and hope everything will be okay? Like you said: " it's not to commune with nature by any means".

Like I said...a disaster from the get go.

"of the 43 citations reported by the Utah County Sheriff's Office, about half appear directly related to the raid itself -- disorderly conduct, failure to disperse and related acts."

article about the rave (http://www.newutah.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=62859)

"Several of the arrested were security guards who had confiscated drugs from the incoming ravers."

another way to look at it (http://www.purdueexponent.org/index.php/module/Issue/action/Article/article_id/539)

i heard somewhere that this all had to do with gwb visiting the area the next day. i can't remeber the source, though, so it's just rumour right now.