1.6 GHz, 1.8 GHz, or DUAL 2 GHz G5
Up to 1 GHz processor bus
8 GB of DDR SDRAM
AGP-8X PRO
Fast Serial ATA drives
Three USB 2.0 Ports
PCI or PCI-X Slots
Optical analog In and Out

See for yourself @ Apple Store U.S

MacRumors also has it.

A few things to remember here folks before you dismiss these specs...

1. What has Apple been working on for the last 2 years while the G4 stagnated in speed and irrelevant spec tweaking?
2. We all know the 970 was disigned FOR Apple
3. Serial ATA is the hot thing in the PC world.

The bottom line is this: Apple HAS to introduce something that will garner them the most press attention and they do this by going full bore on the specs. They have to, since they have become irrelevant in the eyes of the PC crowd. Apple has been biding their time with the G4 until the 970 was done to introduce the next generation Mac that will put us ahead again.

Also, don't forget, we still have Panther to look forward to and that one has been really secret as well.

I'm looking forward to this, its going to be huge.

hmm...i don't see anything on Apple's site...where is it, or have they taken it down already?

IT's been pulled already.. it did not take them long to pull it..

Cheers,

RtC

Well, that didnt take to long to take down, but the damage is done, whether real or not.

Hmmm
If this is a guy who works on the Apple site then he just kissed his job goodbye, unless it was either a hacker or a plot by Apple to generate excitement.
If it all turns out like this, then it will be a big deal this year for Apple

whoa , I just checked MacRumors and the specs they had posted a few minutes ago have been removed at Apple's request.

S-ATA/150 is not the 'Big thing' in the PC world. SATA-RAID only give us a glimpse of what SATA/300 could be like. I've been using a 160GB Maxtor S-ATA/150 drive in my PC months before it was available to the mass-market, and it's only marginally faster than ATA/133 IDE. The problem is that there's only one manufacturer that has a drive that is worth anything, and that's Western Digital with their Raptor 10K RPM S-ATA drive, but frankly, i've had crap luck with WD in the last five years and won't trust data to them.

If Apple goes for SATA, then great. But Jobs is typically a cautious man, and I'd be willing to bet that he'll go for SATA/300 once drives actually show performance benefits with Serial-ATA over IDE with big caches.

The RAM maximum is certainly possible, but I am doubt that will be a shipping amount.

The 8GB would only be the max on the top end model though, because as I recall, each PPC970 will have its own bank of RAM. So the Single machines would have a max of 4GB.

--PB

This site has the original Apple screen shot. (http://www.garyschechter.com/G5/g5.html)

So did ehMac :(

Ceased and decisted.

[ June 20, 2003, 09:29 AM: Message edited by: ehMax ]

Apple's not stupid, nor are their web guyz. IMO, this is 100% pure Apple marketing.

If you're quiet and listen, you can hear the buzz coming from your interenet connection. Just think how much press this "leak" will be. Interest in the WWDC will be even bigger now.

That's my 2¢.

graemlins/heybaby.gif

I am no marketing expert, nor do I participate in rumors (I shall be vindicated by the 19" PDAs and Segway combo deal), but you may be correct in your speculation, ehMax. Of course, this could have been done to deflect the speculations in a manner of Apple's choosing, rather than rumored "leaks". We shall see.

I don't know... I like to think of myself as the cautious type, but why would Apple close down their store temporarily just to remove their "marketing" ploy?

One would think that a deft, skilled and knowledgable Apple web technician could do it without impeding on the store's service. ;)

Anyway, if the specs are true... Daddy's getting a new tower to go with his new home, baby! graemlins/scream.gif :eek: graemlins/rofl.gif

I'm siding with the calculated leak theory. How can you just mess up and upload?? :confused: I don't see it happening. Someone was going to be smart enough to pull the whole image down and post it again (or take a screen shot.. something). Of course they would create a big hoopla around it - I would... shutting down the store for a 'security breach'... having the cust serv people not commment on what was posted... Hell, within the circles that matter most to Apple, they achieved what they wanted: a good buzz. Look at all the NG activity... ;)

Well I agree that it will create a buzz (and in the weekend papers to boot) but Steve has never had to rely on a tactics like that to generate press (think iMac).

Nope, this was a #$^* up (of Time Canada proportions). I just wish that there had been a pic of the new enclosure and details on the princing (not too long to wait though smile.gif ).

The one thing I'm very surprised about is that there are only dual processors on the high end machine.

1 gHz bus!!!!

Be interesting to see if ehMac gets its first "cease and desist" letter over the image from Apple legal. All the other sites are being told to pull the image _and_ the specs.

- double post -

The other theory floating around is that this was a hack. I suppose that's also possible.

ok. you caught me. i hacked into the apple site an put up those specs. ;)

That would sure move the Apple rumour mill to a new level ("Well if Steve can't announce 2 gHz G5s then we will!").

Personally I think it's legit and, if it is, kudos to Apple for for beating almost everyone's expectations.

A funny post from another forum:

That's it, I've had it, I'm buying an Intel now! these are too slow! Steve, you've lost me as a customer!!!


Someone had to post this ;)

Hey mycatsnameis, alas your prediction came true. Not the first time for ehMac though. :confused:

LOL
it was a strategic leak people.

The buzz is already starting in the computing world and will build over the weekend until on a boring Monday BANG! there it is. It's just good press and marketing. It is different because Apple thinks different remember?
They are also differently using the WWDC for major hardware announcements instead of Macworld.

How do I come to this conclusion?
Check out this link to an excerpt from a new book about IT.
http://hbsworkingknowledge.hbs.edu/pubitem.jhtml?id=3533&t=innovation

Remember Ginger (a.k.a. the Seguay)?
This is a hilarious account of Steve Jobs involvement with Gingers development.

Michael Schmertzler says...

"Now he asked when they should instigate a strategic leak to arouse interest in the product."

This is coming from a corporate think-tank meeting.

Thanks to AtAT for the link.

Cheers,
Spidey

Hey! check out the my first Envy News review and let me know what you think...

MacMice iScoot

http://www.envynews.com/review.php?ID=480

ehMax, next time, use the server over at the Shangri-la Club House. It is housed next to Radio Free ehMacLand, and is an ISP that is untouchable by any mortal legal system. Be careful not to step on the guard doxies who are guarding the entrance to the facility.

If this was a "hacker", what does this say about the near "unhackability" (is there such a word?) of Mac computers??? This sounds like one of Peter's "doxiemorons". tongue.gif

Well let's just wait until Monday to find out what is really in store smile.gif . Anyone else notice that the typing was a tad off with regards to the style of text used? Anyways hoax, hack or real, this is exciting news. Now let us see that stock rise to $100 :D

My tongue is on the floor amidst a puddle of drool -- those specs are shockingly sweet!!! :D

The specs look plausible. PowerPC 970s at 1.6GHz to 2.0GHz is reasonable. The bus makes sense as it would have to be 800MHz on the 1.6 and 1GHz on the 2.0. Remember that this is a DDR bus so it's really running at 500Mhz, it's just double pumped. The RAM makes sense, if as Posterboy says, it's 8GB on the top model and 4GB on the rest. I don't know enough about serial ATA drives to comment on that. AGP 8X is certainly possible. The PCI slots make sense, it's probably PCI on the low-end and PCI-X on the high-end. The rest except the optical audio make sense. But then Mac users have started to ask for better audio on the Macs, maybe Apple finally improved the audio on the Macs.

Of course there's this little voice saying, it's a hack, that Apple's site was hacked by someone, because why would it be only one graphic on the page and not the whole page. Some hacker, probably a PC person, thought it be hilarious to stir things up even more than they already are.

Apple responds! graemlins/rofl.gif

Hilarious site (http://www.elroyonline.net/misc/apple/apple.html)

adaigo - That's hilarious

ehMax - not the first time? What were the other times that ehMac has recieved a cease and desist letter? Well, at least we have to feel special Apple Legal cares (and even has knowledge) about us, and will actually send us cease and desist letters. I'm out of town for the weekend, so I'll be coming back Sunday and get to find all the new leaks that came out. :D

Gee, seems like Apple is putting a lot of energy into stomping out those pics... first they "tease" us, then they sic the Lawyers on ehMax? ;)

Things that make you go Hmmmmmm. tongue.gif

Not to poo-poo this latest rumour or anything...but with specs like that you would have to mortgage your house, cash in your RRSPs or sell your children into slavery to be able to afford it. :rolleyes:

A Mac like that would simply be out of reach for ordinary mortals. graemlins/ptptptptptpt.gif

That is a really well done spoof (I like the active links, very clever).

The specs look plausible. PowerPC 970s at 1.6GHz to 2.0GHz is reasonable. The bus makes sense as it would have to be 800MHz on the 1.6 and 1GHz on the 2.0. Remember that this is a DDR bus so it's really running at 500Mhz, it's just double pumped. The RAM makes sense, if as Posterboy says, it's 8GB on the top model and 4GB on the rest. I don't know enough about serial ATA drives to comment on that. AGP 8X is certainly possible. The PCI slots make sense, it's probably PCI on the low-end and PCI-X on the high-end. The rest except the optical audio make sense. But then Mac users have started to ask for better audio on the Macs, maybe Apple finally improved the audio on the Macs.
The (apparently) amazing thing is that everything came out at the high end of expectations, 2 gHz instead of 1.8, bus speed, SATA, even PCI X which the rumour sites had recently been back pedalling on.

If it's true this will move us back about 3 or 4 years in terms of speed parity with Windoze (i.e. back to neck and neck if not much faster under certain conditions).

I can't wait to see the Steve and Phil Photoshop bake off now.

The interesting thing though,is that with the awesome speed on the high end for the 970, that leaves the 1 - 1.4 gHz space for laptops.

There was a recent IBM presentation where they were quoting some interesting numbers for the 970s in terms of power consumption (50 watts at 2 gHz and 20 at 1 gHz if I remember correctly). That's more draw than the G4 at the low end but in the realm of possibility for laptop applications. Perhaps those rumours of 970 laptops coming this year (?this summer) are not so far fetched after all.

That's a funny mistake. I went to store.apple.com and saw nothing of your post. So I thought to myself, "just another false alarm". But sure enough, if you click on the PowerMac link, there it is.

Note: It still only shows G4's and even the banner states "Choose Your PowerMac G4"... but right under is "PowerPC G5". graemlins/love2.gif

http://a248.e.akamai.net/7/248/2041/343/store.apple.com/Catalog/US/Images/step1bullet1powermac.gif

VGG - The PPC970 is supposed to be much cheaper to make then the G4, meaning the price most likely won't be too much more then the current G4s. 8 GB of RAM would be expensive, but I suspect that you would have to install lots of RAM to reach that.

And that opical and analog audio in and out? This is a dream for video production.

Check any Mac site now. The leak has gone web-wide. :D

8 GB of RAM would be expensive, but I suspect that you would have to install lots of RAM to reach that. LOL ,yeah about 8 gigs. graemlins/scream.gif :eek:

Sorry, couldn't resist.

mcni - Re reading that, umm I couldn't have resisted either... I meant to say they won't ship with 8 GB, and well you'll ahve to buy extra to reach that, so it would only be out of sight for us mere mortals if you request 8 GB of RAM from Apple... Especially with the prices they charge for RAM >.<

Wow! PCI-X is going to mop the floor with any agp video card!

Cory's picture was posted from the Apple web site, and since Apple changed/fixed the leak, his picture displays the original specs as the new one was replaced with the old one.

Drool! Where's the laptop upgrades? Oh well... weird how Apple would be the source of the leak...

I can't get into the store either >.<

Those specs would make sense with a G4.. but not a G5.. I don't think you will see a G5 for a bit yet.. but you never know.. could be new G4s in the morning...

Cheers,

RtC

P.S. Also lists the use of Serial ATA HDs.. they are not cracked out to be what they are suppose to be..

Rick, not to be too optimistic, but I can almost promise you there will be G5's on Monday for sale. ;)

Those specs are unbelievable, but you never know..

I am on the side of the folks that are saying that the Apple site was hacked.. and the image inserted.. it does not go along with the Apple development path, it would be a really fast jump forward.. a too big of a jump.. also PCI-X is new, an SATA drives literally suck right now, also the jump in RAM limitation seems exaggerated.

But again, you never know, we shall see...

RtC

Well, folks this is the real deal!!!

Someone at Apple REALLY messed up. Steve is going go to INSANE over this one. :mad:

The furious pace of rumours lately has surely got Apple all keyed up to prevent any leaks. Steve hates to have the thunder taken away from him. Witness ATI's goof a couple of years ago and the Time mag leak from January of 2002.

It certainly looks like Apple pulled all the stops in the specs department. Let's hope the system whole thing is fast enough to shut up the critics and spur some sales. Times are hurtin' right now.

The only fly in the ointment I can see thus far is the fact that the low and mid range machines are single CPUs only. Apple can't seem to make up their minds about single or dual CPUs in the Pro lineup. Make them all dual and be done with it I say!

Those machine specs are far too surreal.

I can see SATA, or AGP 8x, or USB 2.0, but other things like Optical TOSlink/SPDIF, PCI-X and 8GB of DDR SDRAM - well that's not bloody likely.

First, there's not one single PCI-X card on the market right now. First PC one is slated for late 2003, and that's the Radeon R420 core. Two, it would have to have 8 DDR SDRAM slots to accomodate 8GB RAM, and frankly, there's no room on the board for all that stuff plus 8 ram slots. Three, Serial-ATA isn't fast in its current incarnation. However, in about 8 months it will be with S-ATA/300. Apple would be silly to jump on the S-ATA/150 bandwagon now.

Also, PCI-X is set to REPLACE AGP v3.0 spec.

Well, I don't see how this will increase the cost of the Mac to high levels.

First, it's just a bunch of slots - PCI or PCI-X. PCI-X, btw, is a TINY little PCI connector - it's about an inch long. As such, it will definitely have to be either/or - not both, unless Apple has come-up with a clever way of making a PCI-X/PCI dual slot, but that's dangerous, from an electrical stand point. PCI-X is driven by the 'Southbridge' chipset on a Hypertransport motherboard, so if it is Hypertransport'ed, then the Southbridge is already there (VIA's KT8xx chipset, out now, has PCI-X support). So no real cost increase there.

AGP 8x Pro - Again, any chipset on the PC past an nForce 2.0 or VIA KT400 has APG 8x and Pro support. That's controlled by the Northbridge chipset. AGP 8x is a good thing, as that opens-up access to some high-end gaming cards from NVIDIA and ATi - like the 9800 Pro, FX 5900 Ultra, etc. As for 'Pro', it's an extra set of pins near the back of the connector (where ADC power is on the mobo/card), and provides the card with extra power for energy-hungry cards. This opens-up the Mac to Workstation cards such as Wildcats, Nvidia Quadros - real OpenGL cards. $1000 to $5000 video cards. Again, no real cost impact if the mother board is hypertransport'ed. But, the 'Pro' point is in contention with me, since it gets in the way of the ADC connector. There's been rumors of 'ADC-2' out there, and maybe it utilizes some of the pins in the Pro connector, since it would block the old ADC motherboard power pin-out.

8GB DDR Support - Again, not a huge cost factor, since DDR RAM Slots are not an expensive thing - but populated RAM is. The last time we saw plentiful RAM slots was on the 9500 tower and other models based on it. The only concern here is motherboard real-estate. I'm skeptical.

1.6, 1.8, DP2.0GHz - This is a bit confounding. I can see 1.6 and 1.8, but dual 2.0? IBM has that good of yield on the high-end? I thought Apple was going to stick to Dualies mostly. Also, historical pretense dictates that it would be a 1.6, DP1.8, and 2.0. Lastly, 2x 2.0GHz chips at 50W heat dissipation heat each? Holy moly - Heatpipe, copper coolers. If Dual 1.42 users have bitched about loud fans before, they're going to bitch a lot more now. That's over 100 Watts of heat that will need to be vented somehow. Also, tack on venting for 8 RAM slots (DDR does get hot), and the Northbridge chip gets hot too. Big-ass Pro 8x video cards get REALLY hot too. Somehow, the Mac will need to vent in excess of 150 to 175 Watts of heat. Ok, an aluminum case will help a bit... I remain skeptical on the DP2GHz model. Cost? Well, probably on par with Motorola chips for now, and cheaper once yield picks-up. Unless of course IBM has perfected the yield somehow and there isn't that much waste during production/QA'ing.

3x USB 2.0 ports - this makes a bit of sense, since the NEC720D EHCI chipset can control a max of three USB 2.0 ports, all individually controlled (not bridged). Three is an odd number though, Why not two pairs of two? Why not just two like in the past. Two in the back, and one up-front on the case? Btw, current MDD Macs have the NEC720D chipset on board. It's just that OS X 10.2.x doesn't have native drivers for them. Cost increase? The NEC720D already exists on MDD Macs, and the chip is actually quite prevalent in the PC world, hence mass-manufactured. Cheap.

1x FW800, 2x FW400 - That's still a bit odd. Why not have 2x FW800 and 1x FW400? Or two of each, with one set of ports at the front of each speed, and one set at the back. Apple loves adapters. Every Mac has one or three, in-box. Why not make the new PowerMacs with all FW800 ports, and a FW800-to-400 adapter in the box. Cost increase? Adapters cost.

Fast Serial-ATA - Hmm. This is quite odd. Of all the points, this one makes me the most skeptical. Firstly, SATA is not fast. It's theoretical max speed is 150MB/sec, which is a hair higher than ATA/133 Parallel-ATA (IDE). The only way you can get decent speed out of SATA is if you RAID-0 (stripeset) a pair of matched drives (2x 80 Maxtor). Now the point of contention is that only Maxtor and Western Digital makes decent-speed SATA/150 drives. The best chipsets? SIIG 3112 Rev. B. Again, cheap. Every PC motherboard on the planet has dual SATA connectors on board and the SIIG 3112 chip. Two drives supported, RAID supported. The problem is that Apple likes to give the option of 4 drives (Superdrive, extra optical, Boot HD, extra HD. Two SATA connectors can only provide 2 drives on the chain. You can't do 2 drives per cable or controller. So, APple will need to employ the use of the next SIIG chip that has support for 4 SATA connectors. The connectors are tiny, so they'll fit just about anywhere along the bottom edge of the board towards the hinge. The 4x SATA drive supported SIIG controller is about 3x the cost of the 2x-drive one. One board out there in PC land has 4x SATA drive connectors. THe next thing, SATA drives no longer use 4-pin Molex drive power connectors, but a new drive power connector. So, Apple would need to use new power connectors on their Power-supplies (no big deal, Thermaltake is now, in the PC world), or provide Molex-to-SATA gender-benders, - or - use a Maxtor 2nd-Gen SATA drive which is damned near-impossible to source as a consumer (160GB, 8MB Cache) which has a standard Molex power connector on the drive along with the SATA one. However, speaking of costs - these drives aren't cheap, and who here has a need for 160GB of storage (realistically speaking!). Ok, I do, and graphic/DV workshops do, but the average Joe Blow/Jane Doe doesn't. Build to Order option? Dunno. I remain a bit skeptical. However, I'd applaud Apple for going the SATA route, since it is the future. Heck, even Pioneer is working on a SATA 'Superdrive' for Q1/2004. Oh, and another thing, SATA is 'plug and play', asynchronous. Like a FireWire drive, it can be plugged/unplugged when in use - which is something Apple likes. As such, SATA can be externalized, with long cable length support. You could theoretically have an external SATA connector. But that would compete with FW400/800, USB 2.0 etc. But that brings-up one more problem - no optical drive out there has SATA native at this time, and not for at least another half to full year. So, Apple will need to have an ATA/66 or ATA/100 header on-board, still, to supplement the SuperDrive/Combo drive, and to provide end-users with backwards compliance for their big-ass HDs that they may want to port forward to the new boxes... hmm.

Optical/Analog Audio IOs - Hmm. Well, I'm a big proponent of multi-channel digital audio. Sound on the mac has always 'sucked', unless you go with an M-Audio Revolution PCI 7.1 sound card, but then the Mac's sound manager is a bit flaky in that department, and there's only a handful of games, let alone real-world apps, the DVD-player etc, that support multi-channel sound. And finally, any Hypertransport'ed Motherboard have onboard sound chips (including Intel's i865P Springdale) like the Envy24HT (chipset on the Revolution 7.1 PCI), with Optical S/PDIF, TOSLinks etc, in and out, and full analog backwards compatibility. I would embrace this change, and it does add to costs, and perhaps Panther will have a reworked sound manager. Who knows.

The bus speed - well, that's a bit high and unbelievable, but like others said, double-pumping and quad-pumping, you never know. I won't talk about this, as I simply can not comment either way.

- - -

All in all, we're talking about Motherboard technologies here. If Apple was to offer these features, and especially Hypertransport, then they're working with a third-party to have their motherboard manufactured, QA'ed etc. Let's just speculate that Apple has gone with a VIA/AMD hybrid board, then all the features (SATA, Optical sound, AGP 8x Pro, Tons o' Ram) are all 'standard' features of these newer boards. There are two points of contention here - costs, and heat dissipation. I'm really concerned about heat dissipation. Costs, well, Apple could quickly move to have all these features if they contracted out the mobo design/manufacture to someone like Chaintech, Abit, Epox, or even VIA directly, with AMD thrown-in for expertise.

I'm going to remain on the fence on this one. I'm a pessimist at heart, but when 'empowered' with the knowledge I have of the PC world, it gives me a bit of insight into the possible and the impossible. Apple is an innovator, and they have huge cash reserves, and they've been sitting on their asses lately. I think we could be in for a surprise, but I won't be overly disappointed if this is just a big hoax.

http://www.spymac.com/gallery/data/502/276g5.jpg

That is one weird looking tower... Looks very serverish... Nice look, but different from the old Apple style... hmm...

Nice XServe Photoshop cut&paste job..

George:

Where did you get that? It looks fake whatever it is... someone got happy with the copy and pasting of the individual plates.

When I get a chance I'll post a little animation to show you what I mean.

EDIT: Here's what I (and Neil) are talking about:

http://pages.infinit.net/mannyp/img/forums/applefake.gif

mycatsnameis said:
The (apparently) amazing thing is that everything came out at the high end of expectations, 2 gHz instead of 1.8, bus speed, SATA, even PCI X which the rumour sites had recently been back pedalling on.
Yes, alot of the rumor sites have been waning back and forth, but 2GHz isn't the high-end I heard. IBM themselves had said that the PowerPC 970 could reach 2.5GHz, they advertised blade servers at this speed. Of course it was never quite apparent if these 2.5GHz PowerPC 970s would come from the initial batch of PowerPC 970s on 130nm chip tech or on the second generation of PowerPC 970s based on 90nm chip tech. The second generation were to start production some time in Q4 2003. As well IBM could be getting better than expected yields of PowerPC 970s at 1.8GHz and 2.0GHz, IBM isn't Motorola. IBM has the experience and technology to push chip design and speed.

As for the SATA and PCI-X, other than I know they exist, I can't comment on them myself. But maybe Apple has been working hard to finally catch up to Intel and what better time to implement this, than when your creating a new motherboard for the PowerPC 970 from scratch.

As for the top end being the only dual - I, like Neil, find it unexpected. I would have thought the middle and high-end models would be duals. Apple has enough Duals in the user base already, I would think it would be best to keep shipping duals, so that developers have a reason to keep creating software coded for dual machines.

Of course, as I said before, this all could be a hoax (the result of someone hacking Apple's site), and I'll wait till Monday to get my hopes up. If it's true and the actual performance specs of the PowerPC 970 are impressive, I may be looking at making a big VISA purchase sometime in July.

Thunk...... (the sound of the resale value of Power Mac G4s hitting the floor).

Sloop.... (the sound of people slipping on the saliva pool outside my office)

Schthup (the silenced bullet fired from the executive office into the rear end of an Apple ex-employee)

Schwack (sound of Jobs hitting own forehead when he remembers he suggested the leak)

Tick, tick (sound in everyones head waiting form Monday)

jwoodget, a few of your terms sound almost like Yiddish. Add to these "shlemiel" (a jerk), "schmuck" (a really big jerk/dope), and "shlimazl" (a born loser). :D

I've heard a rumour that the new powermac will have a fifteen pound heatsink bolted to the top. Can anyone confirm this?

I thought the G4 DP1.42GHz PowerMacs already have a 15 pound heat sink. graemlins/rofl.gif

I've heard a rumour that the new powermac will have a fifteen pound heatsink bolted to the top. Can anyone confirm this?Wow, that is one heavy beast. I wonder what kind of heatsinks the dual-8 GHz G7's will have? graemlins/rofl.gif

Dr. G., please add a few more examples otherwise people may (incorrectly) assume that Yiddish consists only of words to describe schlepps smile.gif smile.gif

I heard a rumour that the heatsink is based on a new, proprietary vortex re-circulation design based on the "Jobs Energy Reclaimation Knowledge" principle. Removing it is apparently difficult and requires an "Open Fan Facilitator" that is only available from Apple.

Heh, I think you have to be Left-brained to see the humor there...

This is a bit confounding. I can see 1.6 and 1.8, but dual 2.0? IBM has that good of yield on the high-end? I know where all the extra 1.6 and 1.8 chips are going ... to the iMac. Just like the 1.0 - 1.4s will be going to the Al books smile.gif .

With the usual large grain of salt, have a look at the latest MacWhispers (http://www.envestco2.com/macwhispers/archives/000078.php) survey of their "OEM contractors". Yes I know the proprietor has commited heinous crimes against the Mac community but, with rumours like that, I'm just a moth to the flame.

Sloop.... (the sound of people slipping on the saliva pool outside my office)

You know ... radiation can fix that :cool: .

Adagio,

Thanks for the laugh :D

I think this is the most hyped up event yet from Apple. I mean everywhere you go on the internet you bump into this stuff. I'm sitting here not able to wait until Monday. You know RAM is cheap these days for DDR versus PC133 that fits in my Mac. Something like $20 dollars less in most cases. So getting RAM for the new machines will cost less then our old G4's.

Neil, I'm left-handed. smile.gif

Monday, Monday......

Urban_Legend

You are sure right about the hoopla. I have received a couple of e-mails today from PC folks I know. The whole net is abuzz with speculation and it's not just we mac loving folk on the band-wagon. These guys are salivating at the specs of the new G5. I know for one of my acquaintances this may tip the scales in Apple's favour for his next machine.

Imagine if Apple comes out with the PowerMacs (and PowerBooks?) that various people are speculating over, and then, at the conclusion of the presentation of these new computers, states a price that silences the crowd.............a relatively LOW price? Imagine if he gives up profit margins for a year in hopes of gaining market share? From what I have reading for the past couple of years, Mac owners are dedicated to this make of computer (just look at the menu of Mac computers many of you still own and utilize). Thus, in my way of thinking, capture a larger market and then let the innovations in the future keep them "in the family". Granted, a share holder of Apple stock might not think this a wise move, but they have tried just about everything else to gain over more lifelong Mac users to no avail. I am not talking of a few hundred dollars, but some serious savings to go along with a powerful computer. This might make even the dedicated Wintel box buyer think twice. Just my 2 cents worth of advice.

I've wondered about pricing for these new machines. If Apple is smart they will keep the price low to win over market share but based on past experience it's not likely.

I'm wondering about the current stock of G4's. These things will have to go at fire sale prices if this G5 thing holds true.

Well, Sony proved a thing or two, in this capitalistic world. Sell the PSX, PSOne, PS2 at a LOSS, but charge full price + 20% + royalties on the game titles, the name, the peripherals.

It would be nice if Apple, for once, followed this working initiative, and sold Macintosh computers at cost or elss, and things like iPods, OS titles, software, etc at full 'microsoft' style pricing.. Imagine that...

Hmm. MACrosoft.

I'm not sure Apple could sell Macs at a loss and remain viable. Macs are a lot more expensive than game consoles, so either Apple would have to sell a lot of peripherals or the markup on each peripheral would have to be outrageous.

Plus, you can do a lot with a Mac "out of the box"; you don't need to purchase additional software in order to make your Mac useful. Game consoles, unless they come with a couple of bundled games, aren't terribly useful unless you go out and buy some games (and in some cases, some extra hardware).

Oh, for what it's worth, Sony doesn't sell it's consoles at a loss (nor did Nintendo before the GameCube). There's an interesting discussion about that urband legend here (http://www.actsofgord.com/Proclamations/chapter02.html).

Hmmm...

http://www.macmice.com/powerperch.html

and

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?threadid=30055

The point I was trying to make was to sell at cost for a year, and then you have people who actually have used a Mac, rather than merely heard that they are great computers. Then, as new Macs keep coming out, this person might even buy additional Macs or replace their old Mac with a new Mac. Nintendo flooded the market and became a household word re electronic game stations.

http://www.4osx.com/forum/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=1408

Panther 10.3 screenshots, before they disappear...

sweet neil!! thanks!!!!!! smile.gif smile.gif smile.gif smile.gif smile.gif smile.gif smile.gif smile.gif

Woot! Saw 'em! Panther looks kick ass!

I am not sure Apple would be able to sell computers at cost or less, they already lose money on hardware sales every year (last year Apple would have lost money if it wasn't for investment income).

I can see prices coming downon PowerMacs and PowerBooks for sure, but you can rest assured that they will still be in the upper price range.

--PB

PosterBoy, Chrysler Automotives was on the brink of going bankrupt. Lee Iococa brought the idea of the minivan over to CA from Ford. He made and sold them at little profit, but people started to equate Crysler as their car. I even bought one. There has to be some way to get people to buy their first Mac. From there, innovation will keep them "coming back for more". Apple is in a far better financial shape to withstand a low (if any) profit period. Just my opinion.

G5 Spec t-shirts (http://www.cafeshops.com/g5specs).

Funny. If you look at the briefly posted page and the original page it seems quite obvious that the font is quite different. Maybe apple is changing their style? or maybe it's a bad hack? or maybe it was a version that hadn't been edited yet? Not sure, but every other spec line up looks the same on the apple website....not like this "leaked" version.

My 2 cents...

Pamela, how are you doing with your AlPB? I shall be placing an order for one on Tuesday, and I assume that it shall be the same one as the model you FINALLY received. Any suggestions as to the "care and feeding" of this laptop would be appreciated. jwoodget has the same model and has been provided me with a wealth of info.

Because Neil's link doesn't seem to work right anymore:

http://www.deskmod.com/panther/

--PB

If Apple pre-announces a new PowerMac that won't actually ship until Sept., is this actually a bad thing from a business sense? I believe that these PMs are slow sellers, and a preannouncement would not hurt slow sales, but would make potential buyers of Dell/IBM/etc power computers think twice before they commit to a purchase that is not a Mac.

I hate it when Apple pre-announces stuff.. I want something in my hand when I see if from Apple.. if you can't sell it, don't show IMHO.

Cheers,

RtC

Dr.G.

I'm glad you brought up the car analogy.

Do you think BMW cares about increasing their market share significantly?

I have used that argument for years.
If you want a cheap domestic that breaks down a lot get a PC.

If you want a fast smooth riding experience get a Mac :D

Apple will never be a mass market car maker such as Chrysler/MS (yikes, that's eerie...maybe that's Gates next big step MSC-D tongue.gif )

Jobs is the ultimate Yuppie.
He wants his quality at a price.

SpiderWheels

Arachnid, I still say sell quality at cost for one year. Show PC owners what they are missing. I don't drive enough to want to drive a BMW (in over 3 years, we have driven our car a total of 14,000 km, and that includes a trip to Nova Scotia three years ago), but I do teach nearly my entire teaching load at MUN online. I need a good computer, a large screen and a dependable computer that I can do the things that go beyond normal use (e.g., edit video, create educational DVDs, etc). Two years ago I worked straight through the summer, teaching summer school and creating two more web courses. I took Canada Day, the 4th of July and Labor Day off (in honor of my socialist grandfather) as my only break. I pooled all that money into a research account, with the expectation of buying the new iBook which had just come out in 2001. Now I am on the verge of using that money to buy a 17"AlPB, so long as they don't jack up the price on Monday. That, for me, is quality. It will be worth the wait in my opinion. I have gotten good use out of my Dell desktop and Dell laptop, but they are like the basic car that "gets you where you want to go". The Mac shall be my BMW experience, although I would rather walk to work than spend that sort of money for a car. So, if Steve Jobs wants to win over the folks that would rather just buy any computer, then he should price the Macs beyond the reach of most people. However, make the price difference close, and many people who would never consider a Mac will buy one for the quality experience and programs (e.g., iLife).

If Apple hold true with the way they have been doing announcements lately the lowest end PowerMac G5 would be available on day 1 or very close to it, with the higher end machines coming up a month or 6 weeks later.

--PB

PosterBoy, where do you envision the market to be for these new PowerMacs when they do come on stream? I would think that a fully loaded PM with a 20" screen could run up to $10,000Can.

I saw this link (https://jobs.apple.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/Employment.woa/wa/jobDescription?RequisitionID=1978437) on another forum and thought it was ironic considering the G5 spec leak. Jobs is looking for a new web publisher manager?

Re: Market Share

When talking about market share it's important to keep network effect in mind. Network effect is a marketing term that refers to the fact that some products are more valuable to its users the more users that product has.

For example, cars have a weak network effect; the more popular a car is, the easier it is to get parts for that car, or to find people qualified to service that car.

Computers, on the other hand, have a strong network effect. Suppose you're developing an application. The cost of developing the application for a given platform is relatively constant.

Suppose you're trying to determine which platform to target. Platform A has twice the market share of platform B, and so you'll likely sell twice as many licenses on platform A than on platform B. Unless you've got a particular attachment to platform B, you'll probably target platform A since you've a better chance of recouping your expenses.

Right now, Windows has twenty times the market share of Mac OS. While I love Mac OS X, I'd have a hard time justifying developing an application exclusively for Mac OS X. Even porting an application to Mac OS X might require more resources than would be recouped by selling Mac OS X licenses.

Of course, if Apple had a greater market share, the chances developers would recoup the costs of developing applications for Mac OS X, resulting in more applications being available for Mac OS X.

I just wished Apple would bring back the PDA, Maybe a PDA with a projection device would be nice, Imagine being able to project an 800x600 image of a desktop on a wall from a nice little palm sized Apple PDA.

Or how about going virtual and having a visor that plugs into the pocket PDA while you are out and about, You could be doing some voice activated computing...Too Sci-Fi I guess.
I guess it would cause more car accidents with people computing while they were driving, It's bad enough with the cell phone drivers.

Dave :cool:

There is one company (http://xybernaut.com/home.asp) that makes that kind of gear, but it really hasn't taken off.

--PB

I really have no idea for sure, but I would hope that Apple keeps the pricing consistant to the range PowerMacs are already in, so a top end powermac and a 23" display would easily be up in the 10k range after tax.

Here's a thought, what if Apple keeps a G4 tower around as a lower end machine, like the rumoured iTower that was kicking around the net a few weeks back, would anyone go for that or save up for a full blown PowerMac G5?

--PB

Jeez that MacMice PowerPerchG5 is a joke. US$150 for a piece of perspex on wheels? It also has nothing to do with a G5 and is the the work of the same guy who publishes the MacWhispers site (which is one of the worst rumours sites out there).

The G5s will send a shockwave through the PowerMac prices but I don't see any effect on the portables until a 970 class chip is developed thats low enough on power consumption (probably Jan 2004).

Lee Iococa brought the idea of the minivan over to CA from Ford. He made and sold them at little profit, but people started to equate Crysler as their car. I even bought one. There has to be some way to get people to buy their first Mac. From there, innovation will keep them "coming back for more". So Dr. G., I assume you are still driving a Chrysler.

I also owned one and that was all I needed to realize that it was poorly made and that I was not interested in owning another.

[ June 22, 2003, 01:09 AM: Message edited by: mycatsnameis ]

RtC,

I see you've reviewed two "MacMice" products for EnvyNews. The silly perch for the iMate (which is cool by itself) and a wheelie for a G3/G4. You gave em high marks. Methinks you need to be a bit more critical or people might waste serious money on this stuff. smile.gif

It's OK to say it like it is and to suggest obvious improvements (i.e. constructive criticism). The wheelie needs low profile wheels at one end and a price that reflects the design. The iMate base is just plain silly (you point that out in the review - but still give it 88!!).

I know that the best place for the above comments is in the EnvyNews forums but 1. I don't like subscribing to other boards (I always forget the sign in details) and 2. the pointers to the reviews are in your .sig on EhMac. I think your other reviews have been excellent. Call a spade, a spade and a lump of acrylic, a, well, lump of acrylic. YHou could be the next Margaret Wente. smile.gif

Well acrylic is actually not that cheap (the thick stuff anyway). I had this idea to build a kitchen nook for my imac at home w/ some thick (5/8" - 3/4") acrylic for shelves and a desktop. Even looking at picking up the raw, unfinished stuff and doing all the cutting and polishing myself in the machine shop at work would've set me back hundreds of $ and I was not looking for a lot of material.

Granted $150 US does seem like a lot for molded lucite and a few rollerblade wheels but I bet their mark up is not as big as you might think.

I hate it when Apple pre-announces stuff.. I want something in my hand when I see if from Apple.. if you can't sell it, don't show IMHO. I am totally with you RtC!!! Don't show me the latest gear and then say, "sorry, it will only be available in two months." That is just utter nonsense.

And at the moment...the only thing I care about is Apple finally getting it right, by shipping a TWO BUTTON MOUSE WITH SCROLL WHEEL!!! Why is that so bloody hard for Steve Jobs to wrap his mind around???

"the only thing I care about is Apple finally getting it right, by shipping a TWO BUTTON MOUSE"

i'm gonna have to disagree with you on that one. the mac os doesn't require a two button mouse. it's simpler than that. i have a five button track ball on one of my macs, and i only use one of the buttons. scroll wheel; sure, it comes in handy once in a while, but there is no need for more buttons on the mouse.

but this is a debate that should be given it's own thread if it is to be pursued.

The carpet below me has become "damp"

I find scroll wheels to be very usefull. They are nicer to use than have to click the stupid arrow all the time. But I also find that when I am using the one button mouse, it works great. So I guess I don't need to buttons, but a scroll would be lovely.

How about a mouse with a scroll wheel and a built in absorbant pad??? smile.gif

There are after-market two button mice. They don't seem to sell that well although the increasing use of the contextual menu in OS X does make having a right click mouse more useful.