Apr 13th, 2003, 06:55 AM
Apr 13th, 2003, 06:55 AM
Apr 13th, 2003, 12:52 PM
Please note that "command-post.org" is run by US government employees.
Domain Name: COMMAND-POST.ORG
Nelson, Alan (ABRJYFVGXD) http://rsd.gsfc.nasa.gov/users/
381 Margo Lane
Berwyn, PA 19312
The list ends at 1990 ??
I have in a past post given the complete info from the Blix report (2002) .... use search.
Not included in the command-post list are the following American suppliers:
* 1 Honeywell (R, K)
* 2 Spectra Physics (K)
* 3 Semetex (R)
* 4 TI Coating (A, K)
* 5 Unisys (A, K)
* 6 Sperry Corp. (R, K)
* 7 Tektronix (R, A)
* 8 Rockwell (K)
* 9 Leybold Vacuum Systems (A)
* 10 Finnigan-MAT-US (A)
* 11 Hewlett-Packard (A, R, K)
* 12 Dupont (A)
* 13 Eastman Kodak (R)
* 14 American Type Culture Collection (B)
* 15 Alcolac International (C)
* 16 Consarc (A)
* 17 Carl Zeiss - U.S (K)
* 18 Cerberus (LTD) (A)
* 19 Electronic Associates (R)
* 20 International Computer Systems (A, R, K)
* 21 Bechtel (K)
* 22 EZ Logic Data Systems, Inc. (R)
* 23 Canberra Industries Inc. (A)
* 24 Axel Electronics Inc. (A)
Apr 13th, 2003, 01:27 PM
why do you keep insisting on confusing the issue with facts?
Apr 13th, 2003, 01:44 PM
Thank you for pointing that out Macello. It would be very interesting to see the numbers after 1990 because the Iranian situation blew up in '89 at which point Saddam became the good guy tongue.gif
Saddam played all ends of the spectrum to stay in power
"Source: U.S. Firms on List Aided Iraq Arms Development
By Mohamad Bazzi
NewsDay | United Nations Correspondent
December 13, 2002
United Nations -- Iraq's 12,000-page declaration of its weapons programs lists American companies that provided materials used by Baghdad to develop chemical and biological weapons in the 1980s, according to a senior Iraqi official.
The public release of such a list could prove embarrassing for the United States and highlight the extent to which the Reagan and first Bush administrations supported Iraq in its eight-year war with neighboring Iran in the 1980s. U.S. military and financial assistance to Iraq continued until Iraqi President Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait in August 1990.
The Iraqi official, who spoke on condition of anonymity, would not name the companies or discuss how much detail the Iraqi declaration gives about them. The official said the American firms are named along with other foreign companies that provided arms and ingredients for making chemical and biological weapons to Iraq.
The declaration, which was submitted to UN weapons inspectors Saturday, was mandated under a new Security Council resolution that requires Iraq to declare and destroy all of its nuclear, chemical and biological weapons. Iraqi leaders insist they no longer have any such weapons, but the United States and Britain accuse Hussein of continuing with a secret program to develop banned weapons – and have threatened to go to war to disarm Iraq.
Hans Blix, the chief UN weapons inspector, said Tuesday that he does not intend to release the names of foreign companies that provided material to Iraq. He said such firms could be valuable to UN inspectors as sources of information about Iraq's weapons program. If the inspectors "were to give the names publicly, then they would never get another foreign supplier to give them any information,” Blix said.
A Bush administration official declined to comment on U.S. companies' presence in the declaration, or the potential embarrassment if the list were made public. "The issue is not so much who the suppliers are. The issue is really Iraq's program and making sure that Iraq declares what it has,” said the official, who asked not to be named. "We want companies to be able to provide information to the weapons inspectors. It's important to find out what the Iraqis may have received.”
Other officials in Washington declined to comment. But U.S. officials have long acknowledged close military collaboration with Iraq while it was at war with Iran, which Washington viewed as a greater threat.
A 1994 report by the Senate Banking Committee concluded that "the United States provided the government of Iraq with ‘dual-use' licensed materials which assisted in the development of Iraqi chemical, biological and missile-system programs.”
This assistance, according to the report, included "chemical warfare-agent precursors; chemical warfare-agent production facility plans and technical drawings; chemical warfare filling equipment; biological warfare-related materials; missile fabrication equipment and missile system guidance equipment.”
and from New Yorker magazine a very damning article
Hre's the intro to the long and detailed article.
"This article, originally published in New Yorker Magazine, provides a clear picture of the direct involvement of the United States in arming Iraq, providing Saddam Hussein with technology, weapons, intelligence and funding - even in contravention of American law - enabling Iraq to amass the nuclear, biological, and chemical weapons that threaten the world. While the US does not openly acknowledge its role in arming Iraq, it now prepares to go to war against a monster of its own creation." :mad:
Apr 13th, 2003, 03:48 PM
Please note that "command-post.org" is run by US government employees.
You might also want to note that the statistics were compiled by The Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI). From the article:
<blockquote>The Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI) only felt confident in their information up to 1990. After Saddam invaded Kuwait, any and all arm trades to Iraq would be a violation of the United Nation sanctions. Obviously, these sellers did everything possible to hide these sales and SIPRI certainly does not have all of this information.</blockquote>
Apr 13th, 2003, 04:46 PM
The world was very different at that point and it's really from Iran onward that the US supported Saddam so I think despite the accuracy these statistics have little to say about the Iraq/US situation.
I would say it's the cut off date that speaks volumes :eek:
Apr 13th, 2003, 05:02 PM
I'm more interested in who was selling to Iraq while the sanctions were in place. After Iraq invaded Kuwait is when the world got it's first good glimpse at what Saddam's regime was all about. Anything before that is irrelevant.
It's the post gulf war figures that are the most telling. I'd especially like to know who was selling what in the last 9 months. Those are the stats we'll never get to see.
Apr 13th, 2003, 07:48 PM
"I'm more interested in who was selling to Iraq while the sanctions were in place ...yadayada .. first good glimpse ..yadayada ... Anything before that is irrelevant."
As if Saddam said in '91 "Guys, ok, .. let's start all over again. Get rid of all the American anthrax, propellants, vacuum plants, centrifuges and all that ****."
That the gassing of thousands of Iraqi civilians by Iraqi forces (IRRELEVANT?) was headlined in the news of the day as you and I read in 1987-88.
1984, 26 Mar.
A UN document, S/16433, cites the use of CW for the first time, referring to an event in 1983. http://projects.sipri.org/cbw/iraq/Iraq_documents.html
Iraq did not produce it's own chemical agents until 1987 (op.cit.)
Donald Rumsfeld: Special Presidential Envoy to the Middle East (1983 - 1984) (IRRELEVANT?) http://www.defenselink.mil/bios/rumsfeld.html
The poison Anthrax for the arming of Iraq with biological weapons stemmed from US laboratories. (IRRELEVANT?)
Iraqi military and armament experts were trained in the US and there received know-how having to do with their domestic arms programs. (IRRELEVANT?)
That US deemed the use of poison gas a damn good idea for Saddam ... enough to make him a batch. (IRRELEVANT?)
As of the date of Iraq's submission to Hans Blix of suppliers of materials to Iraq, it is indicated that the information is very recent (1998 onwards). It is also noted that the list may not be complete.
"On 7 December 2002, Iraq submitted a declaration of some 12,000 pages in response to paragraph 3 of resolution 1441 (2002) and within the time stipulated by the Security Council. In the fields of missiles and biotechnology, the declaration contains a good deal of new material and information covering the period from 1998 and onward. This is welcome."
It should also be noted that the US distributed an abridged version of the submission to non Security Council members.
The list below did not appear in the US version. (IRRELEVANT?)
Germany published the complete document for public view.
US-German relations deteriorated rapidly never to this day recover.
Here is my post of February 20, 2003:
posted February 20, 2003 04:41 PM *** ** ** ** ** **
Most sound investigation follows the MONEY :
The full list of arms suppliers to Iraq, as published by the taz on 12/19/02, can be found at http://www.taz.de/pt/2002/12/19/a0080.nf/textdruck
Legend used in this list:
A = nuclear program,
B = bioweapons program,
C = chemical weapons program,
R = rocket program,
K = conventional weapons, military logistics, supplies at the Iraqi Defense Ministry and the building of military plants.
1*Honeywell (R, K)
2*Spectra Physics (K)
4*TI Coating (A, K)
5*Unisys (A, K)
6*Sperry Corp. (R, K)
7*Tektronix (R, A)
9*Leybold Vacuum Systems (A)
11*Hewlett-Packard (A, R, K)
13*Eastman Kodak (R)
14*American Type Culture Collection (B)
15*Alcolac International (C)
17*Carl Zeiss - U.S (K)
18*Cerberus (LTD) (A)
19*Electronic Associates (R)
20*International Computer Systems (A, R, K)
22*EZ Logic Data Systems, Inc. (R)
23*Canberra Industries Inc. (A)
24*Axel Electronics Inc. (A)
Zusätzlich zu diesen 24 Firmen mit Stammsitz USA werden in dem irakischen Rüstungsbericht knapp 50 Tochterfirmen ausländischer Unternehmen aufgeführt, die ihre Rüstungskooperation mit dem Irak von den USA aus betrieben. Außerdem werden die Washingtoner Ministerien für Verteidigung, Energie, Handel und Landwirtschaft sowie die Atomwaffenlaboratorien Lawrence Livermore, Los Alamos und Sandia als Zulieferer für Iraks Rüstungsprogramme für A-, B- und C-Waffen sowie für Raketen benannt.
After the list of US firms are these remarks: "In addition to these 24 companies home-based in the USA are 50 subsidiaries of foreign enterprises which conducted their arms business with Iraq from within the US. Also designated as suppliers for Iraq's arms programs (A, B, C & R) are the US Ministries of Defense, Energy, Trade and Agriculture as well as the Lawrence Livermore, Los Alamos and Sandia National Laboratories."
1*China Wanbao Engineering Company (A, C, K)
2*Huawei Technologies Co. Ltd (K)
3*China State Missile Company (R)
1*Commissariat a lEnergie Atomique (A)
3*Thomson CSF (A, K)
4*Aerospatiale and Matra Espace (R)
6*Protec SA (C)
7*Thales Group (A)
8*Societé Général pour les Techniques Nouvelles (A)
Großbritannien (Great Britain)
1*Euromac Ltd-Uk (A)
2*C. Plath-Nuclear (A)
3*Endshire Export Marketing (A)
4*International Computer Systems (A, R, K)
5*MEED International (A, C)
6*Walter Somers Ltd. (R)
7*International Computer Limited (A, K)
8*Matrix Churchill Corp. (A)
9*Ali Ashour Daghir (A)
10*International Military Services (R) (im Besitz des brit. Verteidigungsministeriums)
11*Sheffield Forgemasters (R)
12*Technology Development Group (R)
13*International Signal and Control (R)
14*Terex Corporation (R)
16*TMG Engineering (K)
17*XYY Options, Inc (A)
1*Soviet State Missile Co. (R)
3*Mars Rotor (R)
5*Russia Aviatin Trading House (K)
6*Amsar Trading (K)
Japan : Fanuc (A), Hammamatsu Photonics KK (A), NEC (A), Osaka (A), Waida (A)
Niederlande : Melchemie B.V. (C), KBS Holland B.V. (C), Delft Instruments N.V. (K)
Belgien : Boehler Edelstahl (A), NU Kraft Mercantile Corporation (C), OIP Instrubel (K), Phillips Petroleum (C), Poudries Réunies Belge SA (R), Sebatra (A), Space Research Corp. (R)
Spanien : Donabat (R), Treblam (C), Zayer (A)
Schweden : ABB (A), Saab-Scania (R)
A= Atomwaffenprogramm, B= Biologisches Waffenprogramm, C= Chemiewaffenprogramm, R= Raketenprogramm, K= Konventionelle Waffen, militärische Logistik, Zulieferungen an das irakische Verteidigungsministerium und Bau militärischer Anlagen
taz Nr. 6934 vom 19.12.2002, Seite 3, 36 TAZ-Bericht
© Contrapress media GmbH
Vervielfältigung nur mit Genehmigung des taz-Verlags
Apr 13th, 2003, 08:02 PM
Also Adagio's data chart refers ONLY to major conventional weapons and NOT chemical or nuclear weapons.