Sounds like there may be a good matchup between the Ottawa Senators and Winnipeg Jets next season. So who's to blame if the Sen's go down for the count? (ie: bankruptcy) Players, League, Owner's, Fans . . . or combinations of those people?

Hello,

Don't blame me. I've never lived in the Ottawa area, but even I've been to a game. I purchased four tickets so me, my wife, and a couple of my in-laws were able to see a game.

The biggest problem that Canadian teams are facing now is the low Canadian dollar and the fact that not enough 'superstars' are willing to play in Canada for Canadian loonies. You'd think that our 'good ol' boys' would want to stay in Canada and play here, even if it meant sacrificing some of their income. Come on, how much money do these people really need?

James

james_squared,

just about ALL hockey players both north and south of the 49th parallel are paid in U.S. dollars. Very, very few (if any) are paid in Cdn dollars - only those with really bad agents.

it's just that the tax situtation for millionaires is a little bit better in the U.S. and the endorsement deals (read: Lindros vs. Nordiques) are more plentiful.

Exactly "james_squared". For me it all comes down to blaming the players themselves. An excuse often heard in defense of players is . . .how can you blame the players when the owners are offering the money. Basically that argument is saying that the players are "moneyholic's" rather similar to alcoholics who just cannot help themselves when the opportunity presents itself even when they know better. The players need to be held accountable. I'd be willing to bet my yearly salary (equal to one game for the players) that because they (Ottawa Senators players) didn't get their Jan 1, 2003 paycheck it did't ruin their New Years festivities.
The only way the NHL is going to save itself is to set up a salary structure. The sooner the majority of NHL teams go belly up the better.
PS - Don't even get me started about Major League Baseball. :mad:

.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RicktheChemist:
The only thing I hope about this.. the Ontario or Federal government better not stick their noses into this affairs.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Her! Her!

I agree!

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RicktheChemist:

Down with John Manley... another corrupt politician.. how stupid can he be.. to contact a bank over the Sens when he was in a position of power...
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree it may not have been the best move on his part, but did you ever stop to think that maybe he was trying to keep the team in town because the people of Ottawa like the team (they are right at the top of the league) and he is an MP for Ottawa?
Maybe he wasn't trying to muscle them, maybe he was just seeing what he could do? Maybe he was just trying to do something nice for his constituents?

Both are possible for sure, but geez, it's not like he used his influence to personal gains, he isn't a team owner or anything, maybe he just likes having a good hockey team in his town.

Maybe it wasn't the best decision on his part to call the bank, but if I were the mayor or an MP for Vancouver and the Canucks were going bankrupt I'd see what I could do too.

--PB

This in not a new problem and it's not a Canadian team problem either. Take a look at the Buffalo Sabres and Los Angeles Kings. The kings have been losing money since about '96 and I believe that control of the Sabres is now in the hands of the league.
I truely believe there is way more to this story and perhaps hockey fans, myself included, the teams themselves and players all have to come to terms with the facts. That is, perhaps this game is just not as popular as we might first have believed. If it was it would sustain itself. I think in the late 80's a few teams had the thought, lets spend a lot on one or two players and we will make the money back when we win the cup. That failed horribley. I also believe strongly certain players like Wayne Gretzky sold this country out when he went south. He went into business with a fraud who knew Wayne had the league in his back pocket. I see no coincidence in the Winnipeg Jets becoming the Phonix Coyotes which Mr. Gretzky now owns. :mad: As an ex pegger myself, I have lived through the death of a team and i am here to say, it sucks royaly. :rolleyes: But you know, what can we do? The deal is done and there will be no undoing to it. I think we will see changes in the next five or so years. I also think that the properly managed teams will make it through this tough spell and that's all provided there is no 04 strike people are anticipating. I remember the first strike combined with losing the Jets, it took about three years before I could really watch hockey again. I loathed it. :rolleyes: :mad: Only in the past few have I watched the Canucks religously and was more then thrilled when our Captain, who today leads NHL scoring, signed for much less then his market value. Yes he still got something like 4 million(?) but I think it's fair to say, if given the opportunity other teams would have paid much more for him. Okay, enough of this for now, I love hockey, I really do. It's too bad it's coming to this, but you know what? Maybe that's just what it needs. I am sure I am not alone when I say that a few less teams would tighten up the race for jobs. There are a lot of people playing hockey today that should not be there. A well, that's another problem for another day. Hope your well and I hope the Senitors stay right where they are.
:cool:

More on the 'Timmer' rant....

It really makes me laugh to see the 'fake' one on TV pushing canadian stuff, when the jerk is about as Canadian now as Mom, Apple Pie and Jerry Springer!

What a goof tongue.gif

As I recall, Gretzky hoisted the cup over his head more times as an Oiler than as a King, a Blue and a Ranger combined. Sure he went south, that is where the big money is and he already had quite a few trophies under his belt. I think "selling out" is a bit harsh a term to put on it, as you would have to label every canadian player on an american team. Off the top of my head that would make Messier, Sakic, Brashear, and a host of others. There have after all been more Candian first round draft picks that American.

Gretzky still lives in NY. I hear a lot of people critisizing him on that choice. Why? I don't really have a problem with it. It's not like he uprooted his family (wife and two kids I believe) and moved them to a new place twice in less than two years. Oh wait, it is like that! Maybe he just didn't want to put his kids through making new friends in school for the third time in three years?

For the record, Naslund is the man, (followed closely by Bertuzzi). I was also glad to see him sign here for less than he could have elsewhere. Shows some dedication to the team and the town.

--PB

What I mean is he contributed to the selling out of the game as we know it here in this country. Your absolutely right, there is nothing wrong with going south to make bread but when thee most influencial man in hockey history takes a game south to "sell" to Americans and then we end up having to ship our teams south of the boarder to accomodate this, that's selling out a game. Back to the going south idea, you bet man! I can't wait to be paid in US dollars!! Who wouldn't? Esepcially when you think of how much further it goes back home eh? WOW. :eek:
Hope your well PB and had a great holiday.
Server. I assume your talking about the Ford truck commercial? :rolleyes: I thoughts we along that line. And again I will say Wayne is not a "bad" guy for all of this. Nor is the league, they had an idea that is close to fully blowing up in their face. And maybe, just maybe Wayne will get involved with the ultimate remedy. He did after all build one of the greatest hockey teams in the world that beat "you know who" :D for a gold medal. Lets hope 'cause as far as I can see they have done enough and it's time for some first aid on the situation because it's looking to get a whole lot worse. Wait, if Calgary misses the playoffs, or Edmonton we might just be hearing the same story in Alberta next year. :( Two teams I truely enjoy. Anyway, enough for now, hope you all have a good day.
:cool:

One thing of note, why doesnt anyone complain about Brett Hull? He is a star player on Team USA but was born and raised in Ontario. He wasn't chosen to be on Team Canada once, had a hissy fit, and never came back. Hmmm.

--PB

In a recent interview I watched I learned that he nearly quit all together in his midget year (16) because he was undrafted by a jr. team. This left him thinking he was not all that good in the first place. Being Bobby's son likely didn't help matters much either. It was not until a friend of the family got him a tryout in, I believe Penticton. This friend also had to talk him into taking the chance. He also made mention about always feeling more american as he spent a lot of time their with his mom. Something like that. Perosnally I think the fact that he was not picked to be a world jr. back then might have been the turning point for him. Another name that comes to mind is Adam Deadmarsh. Canadian as well.

I don't think we should confuse NHL hockey with sports. It's business, plain and simple, for owners as well as players.

Hockey, and following NHL hockey, is in our blood but there were not enough people with enough disposable income in Wpg. and Quebec city to support those teams. As an ex-'pegger, I,too mourn the Jets. My team jersey hangs in the closet, though I haven't worn it in years.

I suspect there aren't enough people with enough money in Edmonton and Ottawa too (though I hope the teams stay anyways).

I also suspect Dallas, Anaheim, Florida and another half-dozen U.S. cities have enough people with enough money, but those people don't have the passion for the game. I really care what happens to those teams.

I do think though, that if the NHL took a hardline on faltering teams and let them fail and close, most teams, especially Canadian teams would fare better.

Closing teams would put a brake on player salaries and possibly improve the quality of play as marginal players are pushed out. Bottom line -- making games more attractive and tickets more affordable.

Yes, this does sound like Bud Selig's contraction plan. But even a Selig can have a decent idea.

Another possibility would be to restruct the NHL, and possibly pro hockey in general, like European soccer leagues.

A small elite league of, say, the top 16 or 20 teams plays for the Stanley Cup. But the bottom two or four teams are delegated to the next lower league each year, with the top teams from that league moving up.

Each city and owner should be able to find their own level of affordability and competitiveness. That might put some of the sport back into hockey.

Brainstrained, I read your post and I dig the idea about the elite league. I never thought of it that way. Also, tell me about the jersey. I have one too. A Selanne away. #8.

Timmer, I have a red Jets practice jersey from 1994. It had Kris King's signature, but that is no longer legible.

That was the year before Kris King won the King Clancy Award, and also the year before the Jets left town. :(

I never got the chance to see many games in it.

A jersey I'd love to get is the commemorate Bobby Hull jersey the team sold the night they held a tribute for him. As far as I know the jerseys were only available that night. Unfortunately I was out of town and didn't get to that game.

I have one of the framed season ticket replicas on the rec room wall. I got it from my brother whose company got him season tickets as a perq.

I loved Selanne as a Jet and would have rather they traded Tkachuk, who was a grittier player, but lacked the poise and maturity of the Finnish Flash.

whole heartedly agree about Keith. Terrible, 6 million to him only to make the team more attractive to buyers. BOO. what a blow out at the end of the day. I was at the Bobby Hull game your talking about. I think I have a poster or two that they were handing out that night. Should be still at moms. As for Selanne, still an all time favorite from that team. Although no one passes Dale Hawerchuk in my books. what could have been if that guy was on an elite team like the Oilers of the 80's? One could only imagine.

hope your well

Those Jet teams of the '80s were great to watch, very exciting in a tough, fast division with Edmonton and Calgary. Hawerchuk's line with MacLean and Mullen was one of the best-ever Jet lines.

It's been a while since such good games were almost standard fare. Or maybe we just get too much Toronto Many Laffs now.

Two other standout Jet memories:

-- I was at Portage and Main the day Benny Haskins signed Bobby Hull. My brother and I got to within five or 10 feet of Hull. Traffic was backed up. Office windows were full of people watching. We had to walk home because the buses couldn't get through. tongue.gif

-- The very first Jet game I attended in their first year in the WHA was against the Jim Harrison-led Oilers. Someone hauled Hull down on a breakaway, and he got a penalty shot. We were sitting in the reds over the Zamboni entrance and had a great view of the patented Hull slapshot. :eek:

Major international tournaments aside, I find hockey is seldom as entertaining today. :(

I find that Hockey is very entertaining, but not so much on TV. In fact, I find this with a lot of sports. It just isn;t the same unless you are there.

Anyone else have any jerseys? I have an no name/no number of the Canucks current third jersey, I want to pick up one of the Naz. I am also wanting to get my hands on one of their inaugural jersey's preferably the home one.

--PB

I am a huge fan of the first ever nucks jersey too. I have a current away as well. I also have a St. Louis home that I used in practise back in the day. It's from the Brett Hull era and I also have an LA kings away with 89 and my name on the back. It's from the Gretzky era. As for the live vs. tv i especially agree with Basketball. I can't stand to watch the game on the tube but I saw one game in T.O. courtside and man was it great! I can't believe those guys run as much as they do. Very cool. :cool:

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by timmer:
I am a huge fan of the first ever nucks jersey too. I have a current away as well.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I dont have the black away jersey, I have thethird jersey, the one that fades from black at the top to red at the bottom.

http://images.fanbuzz.com/images/productshots/nhl-authjer-100-ZOOM.jpg

--PB