: B&W G3/no chime/no video/mb problem??
May 14th, 2004, 07:30 AM
I have a B&W version 1 with 384 megs and Panther 10.3.3 and 80 gig hd.
Before I tried to install new Daystar Mach 466 zif and having updated the boot ROM, and choosing the right jumpers I could never get get it to give me startup tones or video or anything. My ADB keyboard could turn on the green tower button but that's it. My older adb keyboard has lights for numlock capslock and scrolllock but none of them would like as they would in a normal bootup. The fan would work and power to the rev 1 motherboard. Before the processor swap the system correctly booted up with chimes.
So I replaced the G4 Ram with the original 300 G3 processor and installed it carefully and the system will not start . There's no change. I had replaced the PRAM battery and played with the CUDA and the on-OFF switch on the MB and even tried to start it by holding the programmer button. All to no avail. I have reseate dthe RAM and taken out and replaced the Stock ATI card in the monitor port. No good. Before I last installed the G4, the system would boot up and I got that wonderful chime but not now. I have done everything correctly which means unplugging the tower before changing procesors and switching batteries etc all to no avail. Once in a while before I changed the battery (old one tested as 3.6 volts with voltmeter) the system would not do a correct boot and all I did was hit the reset button and everything would be normal. Now according to the site:http://pages.infinit.net/captnoah/G3_blue_white/BW_guts.html
Now the LED show: When I power up DS1 DS7 and DS8 are always on and steady. Ds6 comes on briefly about 1 second when I hit reset or when I push the green button. DS9 is on and stays on but flashes all the time and DS 4 and DS5 never turn on. I even tried to take out the G3 and reinsert it again all to no avail.
The processor flashing light causes concern because Daystar has a ROM program to remove Apples block to a G4 processor but my G3 bootup worked successfully after I changed that program and put the G3 back in the slot. I have inserted the G4 and replaced it with the G3 a number of times and had been able to get the G3 working up until this time.
I have inserted each processor carefully each time gentlt pushing it down and using the lever to lock it so what I I doing wrong.
May 14th, 2004, 12:08 PM
Are there jumpers or a dial on the Daystar G4 Zif? You shouldn't have to change jumper settings on the motherboard for a G4 upgrade; just leave them as they were originally with the G3. You may have altered the bus speed, or PCI bus speed. Did the rom update go smoothly, no interruptions? Can you try the Zif in another machine? Did you contact Daystar to see what they might suggest? smile.gif
May 14th, 2004, 01:10 PM
My real concern right now is to get the B&W with its resident G3 to work because by inserting the G4 the results were the same. So if you have some tricks to get the mb to send signal to video card and start my status quo G3 so it will work. I do have a beige G3 to test the XLR8 cpu but that can be done later.
May 14th, 2004, 03:53 PM
Excuse me for being so rash. The jumpers on the G3 mb were never changed and the special seal remains on them. I did do the apple ROM update which was successful to allow the use of the G4 as suggested. I even did the xlr8 update to allow the B&W to use the G4. The G4 jumpers go in 1 place on that ZIF but I tried them in several places just to be sure but with no results. When I fist installed it, I did get the 5 beeps which meant that I had to do the ROM update and it was successful. My real concern is to have this B&W G3 working again with working chimes and a display that lights up but I'm afraid that that may not be possible. I would like to try the G4 i my beige but part of me hesitates based on prvious experienc but I must find out if it really works. If so then my B&W mb is toast. I've tried resetting PRAM and taking out tha battery, using the programmer button and using the CUDA switch and the power switch: all to no avail. I dont think it's the video card but I cant use the Beige one in the B&W- I dont think I can because the vid card is a Personality type in the beige. The key is the LED codes from that site which may explain all.
I guess I should look for a version 2 B&W MB.
May 14th, 2004, 06:46 PM
I don't have a B&W but I have had similar problems on older machines after doing upgrades. It is quite possible that one of the ram sticks or one of the PCI cards has become partially dislodged during the upgrade. If that happens you will get the symptoms you describe.
Here is my suggestion. Remove the pram battery, all your PCI cards (if any), and all your ram. Let the computer sit for at least 20 minutes without the battery. Reinstall just one ram stick and the pram battery. Hit the cuda switch too just for good measure. Now try to boot the computer. If it boots properly then shut down and install your other ram and PCI cards.
I've had to do this after about 5% of the time after a new hardware installation.
May 14th, 2004, 06:53 PM
Did you upgrade the rom with the G4 chip in? Probably not, it wouldn't have worked. Everything you're trying to do now is with the original G3 chip, everything back as it was?
It shouldn't have messed anything up, unless the Rom update didn't go well.
As for putting the G4 Zif in the Beige, there is no firmware update necessary. The update for the B&W is to remove the block Apple has to prevent G4 upgrades. In the Beige, you will just need software to enable the L2 cache on the G4 Zif, but not on the B&W. For the Beige, the G4 Zif should just work, though you may have to reset logic board first...
I'd put the B&W back the way it was, Unplug it; pull the battery, let it sit for while-all night if you want- hit the cuda switch,once, briefly; reinsert the battery; plug it in and see if it boots. While you're at it, check Video card is seated correctly, use just one piece of ram at a time (if at least 64) and try to boot from an OS9 CD, not the hard drive. If you get a boing at least, all is not lost ;)
Just re-read your original post-what on/off switch on the mobo and why did you hold in the programmer button?
May 15th, 2004, 11:59 AM
I took your advice and took out everything for longer than 1 hour and put everything back and no change . It will not chime. I followed the LED advice from the site: http://pages.infinit.net/captnoah/G3_blue_white/BW_guts.html
The processor LED briefly flashes at startup and that's it. The fan works as usual and the correct LED lights work except for DS4 and DS 5 which would light after the chimes on a working G3. Whenever I put in the G4 it has the same result. DS9 which is the processor light is only supposed to quickly flash at startup for about 1 second and shut off untill HD controller starts and OS is being loaded into RAM. Mine behaves like that now but when I first installed either processor it would stay on. It's a task to have the processor correctly installed so that it briefly flashes at startup rather than stay on. Doing a ZIF install is not as easy as the say. I've not had bent pins but some CPU installs result in the DS9 LED staying lit and that's not good.
The rom update went successfully as APPLE said and the message confirmed a correct install. I used the program switch many times hoping that would do something but to no avail. After I changed batteries with in the stock G3 and it booted up correctly, I decided to risk installing the G4 on Wednesday placing the jumper in the right place as shown on the box. I did it carefully but then I noticed a burning smell (it would not boot up) and the processor got very hot. So I quickly shut off the system and replaced the G4 with the G3 and have not been able to boot since then. I even tried the G4 in my beige version 3 G3 and it would not boot, So I replaced it with the G3 and the G3 worked fine. I think that the version 1 mb is finished anyone with a version 2 mb. Since I have no other solution, in the short term my partitioned 80 gig with 9.2.2 and panther will have to handle things for awhile. Can Panther boot up on a beige? I know you can't install it but if my last startup disk was panther, what keystroke do I use to have 9.2.2 boot up in case Panter freezes the startup process?
May 15th, 2004, 01:18 PM
Doesn't sound good...could be the G4 Zif is fried; but it shouldn't have taken out the motherboard as well.
I've done quite a few B&W upgrades, but luckily no issues yet. Putting the heatsink on correctly is crucial.
I have one here that I have a G3/900 zif in now, alternate between a G4/500 zif; and am debating whether to sell one or the other... As for motherboards, if you're in TO, someone like MacDoc or Alex Rishea(Alex R here) might be able to help you.
May 15th, 2004, 11:05 PM
That doesn't bode well.
Was the computer unplugged when you took the pram battery, memory and PCI cards out? If you had it plugged in then try doing it all again with the computer unplugged.
If it still doesn't work I would leave the computer unplugged, pram battery removed, all memory and PCI cards removed for a day or more. I had a 6500 that had the same problem as yours. I had to let it sit for a day before it would work. My guess is that it has something to do with static buildup on the memory or the motherboard. I had another similar problem with some ram in a PC laptop. Taking the ram out and letting it sit for a day solved that problem too. Hey, I know it sounds like Voodoo, but it doesn't hurt to try.
Don't give up hope yet.
May 16th, 2004, 09:42 AM
Double check your pram battery too. Make sure the contacts are clean at both ends. Also check the contacts on the motherboard.
Make sure the battery is installed in the correct orientation. On the Macs I've had the + and - indicators are hard to see on the motherboard.
I say this since someone on this board had bootup problems recently that was solved by a new pram battery.
[ May 16, 2004, 10:46 AM: Message edited by: Rob ]
May 16th, 2004, 12:44 PM
That is my only hope to have my B&W G3 working again. I was afraid that the smoking smell and the very hot G4 cpu could have caused the cooking of the motherboard; something was burned at it will not come back to life. I have taken everything out for about 2 hours including battery RAM and video card but it's worth the try to give the stripped G3 a chance. It's a shame that the G4 would not work and Daystar is sending a replacement. The G3 motherboard would behave erratically once in a while and not startup. There maybe still hope: slim hope
May 16th, 2004, 12:55 PM
I forgot to mention that the DS9 LED from the site: http://pages.infinit.net/captnoah/G3_blue_white/BW_guts.html which states the processor light is only supposed to quickly flash at startup for about 1 second and shut off untill HD controller starts and OS is being loaded into RAM. Mine behaves like that now but when I first installed either processor it would stay on. It's a task to have the processor correctly installed so that it briefly flashes at startup rather than stay on. Well after reinstalling the G3, one time it behaved correctly then on the second try, the light would stay on signalling a CPU problem until I took it out and reinserted it. My concern based on the site's interpretation of this LED's behavior that either the CPU was incorrectly installed or the MB is defective. Sometimes the CPU works perfectly and the light flashes then correctly shuts off but when the heatsink is applied and the slight force needed to hold it with the clips caused the CPU light to stay on on the next start attempt. I never thought a CPU install would be so complicated
May 17th, 2004, 06:54 AM
The 30 hour sabbatical with everything out including processor produced nothing but the same results. When Daystar send new processor and it works on all my beiges and not the B&W this week then we'll know it's the motherboard. Stay tuned for more details this week.
May 17th, 2004, 07:28 PM
Check that all your internal cables are secured. Hard Drive cable and CD drive cable. Check at the drive and at the motherboard connections.
These will sometimes get dislodged during upgrades of other things.
May 21st, 2004, 01:22 PM
Thanks to all:
A final note. I tried my 300 mhz processor from my B&W G3 in my beige and it worked of course unlike the XLR8 G4. A final note if processor is OK but the final item I forgot to check was the video card. My system gave me no famous ring tones and of couse no video on my monitor after reistalling the card several times. Is it possible that the non boot was caused by a defective video card and not the mb? Remember about 1 week ago everything worked perfectly until I reinserted the G4 and then smelled smoke on powerup and shut everything down fast and then all my non boot problems started.
May 21st, 2004, 10:32 PM
My guess is that you can boot a B&W G3 into OS X WITHOUT a video card. For instance you might use it as a server and not need a monitor. I have an old clone of the Performa 6400 with 10.1.5 installed in it with NO video card.
(at least let us know if you hear the chimes when the video card is out of your Blue.)
May 24th, 2004, 09:21 AM
To end this Story:
I decided to test each of the components in my B&W to see if they worked by either testing them in my daughter's Rev 2 B&W or our beige G3. Well the processor worked in the Beige G3. The video card and the RAM worked in the other working B&W. So there was only the final test which was to run my non working B&W mb with my RAM and video card attached and try to see if it would boot in my daughter's B&W case. The results were predictable: the same result as in my B&W case, no chime tones. Then I tried her fully loaded MB in my B&W case and had success, chime tones as I prdeicted. As such I have correctly come to the conclusion that my motherboard has really been fried and have bought a 400 mhz version 2 motherboard (guaranteeed no DOA) on ebay. Daystar/XLR8 is sending a replacement ZIP 466 G4 chip to replaced the first non working one.
I just want to thank everyone for their super advice on this issue and only wish I had done all these tests a little earlier to save everyone time.
Jun 2nd, 2004, 01:43 PM
Thankyou for all your help. My ebay purchased motherboard and Xlr8's replacement ZIF G4 worked perfectly together. Thankyou for all your help.
Jun 2nd, 2004, 01:44 PM
Thankyou for all your help. My ebay purchased motherboard and Xlr8's replacement ZIF G4 worked perfectly together. Thankyou for all your help.
Jun 2nd, 2005, 01:07 AM
I was able to boot pressing the little button on the right and pressing the power button. Hope it can help someone. I have the problem that I can not reboot or start the computer unless I press the little button on the right and the power button. :cool: