Hey folks,

So earlier this afternoon I saw an ad posted by a local computer store that they were getting rid of some old Macs, most of them in "for parts" condition. I went down and to check it out and by the time I got there, all they had left was this 2002 Quicksilver PowerMac G4. The guy said he got it as a trade-in but never tested it.

I brought it home and booted it up and it showed me the flashing finder and question mark, which I was expecting. I decided that, since I had a copy of Tiger kicking around, I'd try to do an install and see if it worked. Since I couldn't boot the system to open the disk tray and put the disk in, I "restored" the installer first to an iPod classic (which it wouldn't boot from), then to a partition of my 1TB Western Digital HD (that didn't work either). Every time I go to the boot options screen, all I see is the rescan arrow and the right-pointing arrow. Nothing shows up.

So my question is: what else should I try? Does it seem like a lost cause? The machine has USB 1.1, so is the fact that I'm using USB 2.0 stuff a problem? Should I try with a HD that isn't partitioned? Could it be a HD or logic board failure? I'm not sure where to go from here. I'd like to fix it, because it'd be good to have around, but if I can't I won't be heartbroken, since I got it for free anyways.

Any help or advice would be much appreciated.

Hold down the mouse button when you hear the chime. Keep holding it down.

I know my old G4 Xserve can not boot from USB. Could the PowerMac be the same? My Xserve could boot from an external FireWire drive though.


Sent from my iPhone

Of course, thanks.

So I pressed and held the mouse button, and got the disk tray to open; I popped the Tiger disk in and tried to boot both by holding down the C key (resulted in a grey screen until the computer spit the disk out) and pressing and holding the option key to try and select it (nothing shows up).

Thoughts?

Have you checked all the pram, pmu resets? Are all the card, connector, hard drives etc connected properly? Perhaps another hard drive might work better? Sometimes I remember with an iMac G4 I had last year; that I had to repeatedly try and get it to boot form a Tiger CD (didn't read DVDs) at least 3-4 times maybe more to get it to be happy and boot from the disc!

PowerMacs will not boot from USB, only Firewire.

It also wouldn't be unusual for the DVD drive to be pooched, since it's been sitting for ages. It probably can't read any disks. You could try one of those DVD cleaning disks to see if that might help clean out some of the dust on the read head,

If you have a Firewire cable you could also try booting from another Mac in Firewire Disk Mode. Look it up.

I did a PRAM reset already, and that didn't do anything. I haven't tried a PMU reset, so I could try that.

I read conflicting opinions on the internet about whether or not PowerMacs would boot from USB - some people swore up and down that they'd done it and it was possible, and others said that they couldn't and it wasn't. But I'm guessing that it probably isn't possible..

So my options are, one, get a firewire cable and try FireWire Target Disk mode, or..? I suppose that's my last resort. Also, retail Tiger is on a CD not on a DVD right, so it can't be a problem with reading a DVD?

Is it a retail version of Tiger, or a bundled disk that came with a different model Mac?
If it is a bundled version there is a strong possibility that it does not contain the resources to boot a G4 machine

Info on the machine here Power Mac G4 (Mirror Drive Door) (http://lowendmac.com/ppc/mdd-power-mac-g4-dual.html)

It's retail. :)

Ok so a retail version is going to be at least 3-4 CDs. (or one DVD. But you don't have that). What you could do and it's snit of a stretch is to use and external FireWire drive and Disk Utility to clone each CD to a partition for each cd. Make sure the disk is set to APM (Apple Partition Map) and not MBR or GPT. Itd be easier with a retail DVD as it'd be a single disk image; but we must work with what we have ;)

Hope this helps!!

I too assumed that all PPC Macs could not boot off of Firewire, yet according to what I've been reading, PPC Macs always had the ability to boot from USB into OS X, but Apple never supported it due to performance issues. Apparently any PPC Mac with the requisite firmware updates and OS X 10.4.3 and above installed will boot into USB.

If your Mac is indeed a 2002 Quicksilver, then it should boot into your retail Tiger disk, since it shipped with 10.1. Does your retail Tiger disk work on another Mac? The issue could be the optical drive, or even the optical drive cable. Did the machine come with the original OEM drive, or was it upgraded?

What you could also try doing is to install Tiger to an IDE drive in an external case, before installing that as an internal drive on the IDE bus. I have a suspicion the motherboard is bad, but it's best to first isolate any other possible causes, like an issue with the optical drive bus or the hard drive bus.

Also, retail Tiger is on a CD not on a DVD right, so it can't be a problem with reading a DVD?
My retail Tiger is on a DVD...

I too assumed that all PPC Macs could not boot off of Firewire, yet according to what I've been reading, PPC Macs always had the ability to boot from USB into OS X, but Apple never supported it due to performance issues. Apparently any PPC Mac with the requisite firmware updates and OS X 10.4.3 and above installed will boot into USB.
PPC's are a hobby of mine, and my own experience has been...
I never had any luck getting my G4s to boot from USB, but my G5 powermac tower boots from USB without any problems whatsoever.

Lets assume the previous person fiddled with the processor, video card or PCI,
Try resetting the CUDA switch and then try booting from the install disk.

My retail tiger is also a DVD. Hey, look, it even says that right on the front of the DVD. How embarrassing..

I've done a PRAM reset and that didn't do anything, but I can try resetting the CUDA. I've never done that before, it's worth a shot.
From what I can tell, the Tiger DVD works..it works in my '08 Macbook, anyhow. So, I'm interested in trying out Target Disk mode, but I don't have any FireWire cables. I'm pretty sure the '08 Macbooks have FW400 inputs, just like the Power Mac does, so I guess I should get a FW400 to FW400 cable? Do they make those?

Somebody mentioned it could be a mother board failure. I don't suppose there's any way I could find that out? :confused:

MrsMime
check your PM mail box.

- Most PPC G4 Macs (including the Quicksilver models) won't boot from USB drive with a compatible OS installed. An old Iomega drive I had was an exception.

- On a Firewire drive and if partitioned, as I recall the compatible OS had to be on the first partition. And I believe, they had to be AC powered.

- They were fussy on what install disks were used, but your "retail" DVD should be OK.

- Sometimes the holding down the C key method didn't always work and one needed to use the 'startup disk' option, select the 10.4.x install disk and restart.

Just some memories and facts I recall, and we just semi-retired my G4 MDD 1.25GHHz dual-boot Mac, which was a replacement for a previous 733 GHz QS model that I got the officially unsupported OS 10.5.x installed on.

Thanks for all the info, pm-r. I'm going to go and pick up some FireWire cables this weekend and see if I can't get it to work through FireWire Target Disk mode.

I've tried using the startup disk option (pressing and holding the option key until the selection screen comes up), but it just spits the disk out.
I see the "rescan" circular arrow and the right-facing arrow; they look pretty old school, I wonder if the last OS on this thing was OS 9. I started using Macs when Tiger came out, so I don't have a lot of experience with the OSs before that, so I can't tell what is currently on there. Anybody know, based on that vague and almost useless description? Maybe I should find an OS 9 disk on eBay or something and try to install that, but I don't see how that should be any different..

Thinking back with some very foggy thoughts, I do recall getting the appropriate Mac OS X and even the associated System 9.x with my QS 733 MHz and the MDD 1.25GHz installed with a new install was a PITA without using the proper "Apple approved" install disks, but the Firewire Target Disk Mode just might work.

What I don't recall is whether another PPC Mac had to be used and if the G4 PPC install works when using an Intel Mac.

Not knowing what Mac you're going to be using, when purchasing any FW cables, you may also want to include a FW 800 - FW 400 adapter as the Gr only has FW 400 port connections and you Mac may only have FW 800.

It can sometimes be a PITA to get the proper Mac OS into the G4, but if all components are all working, then it should still be able to be re-born and again run.

For more details on the actual PPC G4 model, check out:
Apple Power Mac G4 Specs (All Power Macintosh G4 Technical Specs) @ EveryMac.com (http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/powermac_g4/index-powermac-g4.html)

Ok so this is what you should see if the DVD/CD is detected by the Mac. The first image is just to OS X installation disc and its icon; while the second picture is of the icons for two OS X systems that I have loaded on my PM MDD along with the OSX install and the reload/search button and the "forward/go" button.

Oh and I'm fairly sure you'll need a PPC Mac to boot into the OSX installation media.

However, this is a bit of a long work around; If you were to put the G4 into FW Targe tdisk mode. Then Format and partition the hard disk to APM and two partitions (one 5GB and the other the remainder of the hdd... you could copy the Tiger DVD over (By using disk utility to "restore" the Tiger install DVD to the 4 or 5 GB partition) and boot from it and install Tiger (as a usable OS) to the larger partition. The only real issue with this is that you'd be stuck with the installation partition unless you had some software like say iPartition that can non-destructively repartition the drive.

Yeah its a very patchy procedure lol! But it might just work.

Not to be picky, but you're using a later MDD and the OP has a QS, and as I recall, if and when such boot options even showed on the QS Macs, the chosen option wouldn't even work, and one had to use the 'Startup Disk' instead.

But as the QS isn't even booting and I gather the install disk is being spat back out, (which if not, there was often an other option to select the startup disk from the menu somewhere), so it looks like a catch-22 situation and using the FW Target Disk Mode may be the solution.

Does anyone know if another PPC Mac MUST be used for such an install, or can an Intel Mac do such an install onto the QS PPC Mac??

BTW: The normal Tiger "retail" install disk came on a DVD, but Apple had an option to purchase a special multiple CD set, which I have in my Mac support case, for those Macs that couldn't use the DVD install disk.

I wonder if that's a possible problem for the OP and hid G4 QS??

Regardless, the FW Target Disk Mode should work for them, I hope using the proper FW cable and/or adapter!! ;)

Not to be picky, but you're using a later MDD and the OP has a QS, and as I recall, if and when such boot options even showed on the QS Macs, the chosen option wouldn't even work, and one had to use the 'Startup Disk' instead.

But as the QS isn't even booting and I gather the install disk is being spat back out, (which if not, there was often an other option to select the startup disk from the menu somewhere), so it looks like a catch-22 situation and using the FW Target Disk Mode may be the solution.

Does anyone know if another PPC Mac must be used for such an install, or can an Intel Mac do such an install onto the QS PPC Mac??

BTW: The normal Tiger "retail" install disk came on a DVD, but Apple had an option to purchase a special multiple CD set, which I have in my Mac support case, for those Macs that couldn't use the DVD install disk.

I wonder if that's a possible problem for the OP and hid G4 QS??

Regardless, the FW Target Disk Mode should work for them, I hope using the proper FW cable and/or adapter!! ;)

I have had a similar screen come up on my Titanium G4 Powerbook. Just couldn't take a picture of it. Thought they'd be the same process of Open Firmware screens.

But if the OP needs any help with the steps we've all suggested... I'm sure we can help him straighten this out with him! Good Luck!

Thanks again for all your info. The Mac I'll be using for FireWire Target Disk Mode is an Intel Mac - a 2008 Macbook. I'm pretty sure that it has FireWire 400, that's one of the reasons why I'm using it. Unfortunately, I don't have any non-Intel Macs other than the G4, so hopefully that's not an issue..it'd be too bad if I need a PPC to do the FTDM installatation..

Put the Tiger DVD in your Intel Mac, then shut it down and restart it in Firewire Disk Mode.
Start your G4 normally while pressing the option key. With any luck you'll see the Tiger DVD on your list of boot drives. Select that disk, and hope that you can start and boot from it.

The computer that's started in Firewire Disk Mode is basically just another external
Firewire device. Your G4 will just be making use of the DVD drive on the Macbook.

If you put your G4 in Firewire Disk Mode, then your Macbook could see if the G4 hard drive is working (or even has one), but if you do a system install like that it would be installed for an Intel Mac. This may or may not work when you try to boot the G4.

It seems clear to me that there probably isn't a hard drive in the G4, or the hard drive isn't working. That would make sense, since the drive was probably removed when the original owner traded it in.

It also seems clear that the DVD or CD drive in the G4 isn't working either.

At this point you're clearly going to have to start spending some money to get this working. By your questions, you don't seem to have the technical savvy of someone who wants to do it just for the hell of it.

The G4 is a nice machine if you have a use for it, but it's not worth spending money on at this point.

Give it away, or send it to the recycle center.

Not forgetting that if it does need a hard drive, that G4 requires an IDE/Ultra ATA/66, but at least Ultra ATA/100 hard drives are backwards compatible with the Ultra ATA/66 standard, however they are getting a bit scarce to purchase, but still possibly available:
CanadaRAM sells Desktop IDE Hard Drive, IDE Hard Drives, Parallel ATA Hard Drive, HDD (http://www.canadaram.com/3_5_ide_hard_drive.htm)

Also, no hard drive over 128GB is officially supported with any Mac OS less than 10.2.x.

The same goes for the optical drive that works on and uses the EIDE (ATA-3) bus.

An external CD/DVD could be a possible option, but the USB 1.0 speed would be painfully sloooow, and I don't know if any Firewire optical drives are even still available.

I actually did get it to repair it just for the hell of it - but I don't have much experience with anything before Tiger.

It's entirely possible that the HD was removed before it was traded in; if I had the tools to open it up and check, I would. Unless I can find a HD that'll work for it, I guess it's going to get recycled. Thanks for your help, everybody.

I actually did get it to repair it just for the hell of it - but I don't have much experience with anything before Tiger.

It's entirely possible that the HD was removed before it was traded in; if I had the tools to open it up and check, I would. Unless I can find a HD that'll work for it, I guess it's going to get recycled. Thanks for your help, everybody.

No tools need to check that 2002 Quicksilver PowerMac G4 and see if there's a hard drive inside, just lift the release lever and swing the side door open and down, and all internals will be quite visible.

The hard drive would be at the back right corner if I recall correctly.

That's handy.

So, there certainly is a hard drive in there. Guess it's dead, then.

Anybody know if an iBook HD would work in this thing? I found an iBook with a dead motherboard on Craigslist, the guy's willing to sell me the 80 GB HD for $40. It should work - it's a 3.5" ATA, what the G4 takes - so it'll work, right?

Anybody know if an iBook HD would work in this thing? I found an iBook with a dead motherboard on Craigslist, the guy's willing to sell me the 80 GB HD for $40. It should work - it's a 3.5" ATA, what the G4 takes - so it'll work, right?

It will work but because of its 2.5" size, it will not mount properly.

Meaning it won't fit in the metal drive tray? Will that be a problem?

It will work but because of its 2.5" size, it will not mount properly.

It's also probably a 5400 RPM drive rather than the standard 7200 RPM 3.5 inch PATA IDE/ATA drive.

I'd forget it and look for a 7200 RPM 3.5" PATA drive.

I don't know if one of the G5 Serial ATA Interface to Parallel ATA Drive Adapters would work or fit or even be worth it.
TPASA G5 Serial ATA Interface to Parallel ATA Drive Adapter (http://www.welovemacs.com/tpasa.html)

Edit: Maybe try:
Pata Hard Drive - Price comparison - Computers - Buy cheap in Canada (http://www.shopbot.ca/pata-hard-drive/price/canada/462760)

and the one listed there at

Amazon.ca: Used and New: Seagate ST3120022A 120GB 7200RPM 3.5" PATA 133 HARD DRIVE (http://www.shopbot.ca/r.html?i=3&catc=2&refshop=2019&refshopcodeid=53724682)

Anybody know if an iBook HD would work in this thing? I found an iBook with a dead motherboard on Craigslist, the guy's willing to sell me the 80 GB HD for $40. It should work - it's a 3.5" ATA, what the G4 takes - so it'll work, right?

You'd need a special ATA card like a Sonnet PCI with a 2.5" (http://www.sonnettech.com/product/tempohd.html)mount.

You'd need a special ATA card like a Sonnet PCI with a 2.5" (http://www.sonnettech.com/product/tempohd.html)mount.

Not really.

And depending on the G4 model, there's a good chance that it's HD ribbon cable and power connector supports two hard drive as standard.

On can always use the 2.5" and connect it with the supplied standard connections, and just mount it with some strips of double sided mounting tape, or just plunk it down loose.

It's not like it's a portable Mac, but I'd go for a 3.5" 7200 RPM drive regardless and forgo the most likely 2.5" 5400 RPM drive.

Anybody know if an iBook HD would work in this thing? I found an iBook with a dead motherboard on Craigslist, the guy's willing to sell me the 80 GB HD for $40. It should work - it's a 3.5" ATA, what the G4 takes - so it'll work, right?
If it comes from an iBook it cannot be a 3.5" ATA drive. It more likely is a 2.5" drive and you would need some type of connection converter as the standard data and power connections for a 2.5" drive are different.

check your Personal Message's

If it comes from an iBook it cannot be a 3.5" ATA drive. It more likely is a 2.5" drive and you would need some type of connection converter as the standard data and power connections for a 2.5" drive are different.
check your PM's

You're quite correct JB, and I had forgotten the 2.5" and 3.5" connection difference.

As I recall for a 2.5" PATA there is no dedicated molex so no power connection without using an adapter which there probably isn't much room to use.

3.5" HDD uses 40-pin IDE for data and a 4-pin Molex for power.
2.5" HDD use a 44-pin IDE for both data and power.

Bottom simple line = that 2.5" drive ain't goona work without some fudging.

Thanks, I knew there was something nagging my old brain to forego attempting to use a 2.5" PATA hard drive in a G4. ;)

Although it is possible to use the IDE 2.5" drive in the PowerMac G4, you'll need to spend an extra $10 - 20 or so on a 2.5" 44 pin to 3.5" 40 pin adapter, and then a 2.5" to 3.5" bay adapter (or jimmy it in with duct tape). When you are done, you will have a very slow 2.5" IDE drive.

We have a recertified 3.5" Maxtor 120 GB IDE drive here (114 GB formatted) for $45 which I have partitioned and initialized for PowerPC Macs and run a surface scan test on. 15 day warranty only, because it is obsolete stock, but it would be a more suitable solution for this machine. 250-382-6227

Now there's an excellent reasonable suggestion and solution for MrsMime and a very reputable firm to deal with I might add.

I second that.

I apologize if I sorta bombarded you with too much information there. I think I kinda took an idea and ran with it a little crazy... Sorry!

Not really.

And depending on the G4 model, there's a good chance that it's HD ribbon cable and power connector supports two hard drive as standard.

On can always use the 2.5" and connect it with the supplied standard connections, and just mount it with some strips of double sided mounting tape, or just plunk it down loose.

It's not like it's a portable Mac, but I'd go for a 3.5" 7200 RPM drive regardless and forgo the most likely 2.5" 5400 RPM drive.

An ATA -133 card would be the best solution,
But, I just provided a solution that involved a 2.5" drive.

If it can be had then, Go for an ATA-133 card for sure,
I have one in my G4 tower, It works great.

Although it is possible to use the IDE 2.5" drive in the PowerMac G4, you'll need to spend an extra $10 - 20 or so on a 2.5" 44 pin to 3.5" 40 pin adapter, and then a 2.5" to 3.5" bay adapter (or jimmy it in with duct tape). When you are done, you will have a very slow 2.5" IDE drive.

We have a recertified 3.5" Maxtor 120 GB IDE drive here (114 GB formatted) for $45 which I have partitioned and initialized for PowerPC Macs and run a surface scan test on. 15 day warranty only, because it is obsolete stock, but it would be a more suitable solution for this machine. 250-382-6227

I have to say I'm bummed out to only be getting this message now, as I just bought a blank HD today. And I'm in the woods again. Crap.

I installed the HD just fine, but when I popped my install disk in again, it just spit it back out like before. So, I am forced to conclude that the disk drive is dead. So, I bought a FireWire cable and decided to install via FireWire Target Disk Mode. I can boot the PowerMac into FWTDM and my Macbook recognizes its HD just fine - but when I put the disk in my Macbook and boot my Macbook into FWTDM, the PowerMac doesn't recognize it.

My Macbook is intel, and of course the PM is PPC, but they're both FW400..should there be a problem? Needless to say, I'm stumped.

If I may be a bit blunt here, are you sure you want to keep trying to possibly restore that 2002 Quicksilver PowerMac G4 into some possible normal working condition, as you seem to be somewhat limited with the OS installers and other resources you have available, as well, and no derogatory comment intended, your seemingly lack of old PPC Mac knowledge.

Maybe time to just sell it if you can and recover whatever you've put into it.

This is now post # 44 from your original post.

Just saying, and no offence intended.... ;)

PS: What part of this great Vancouver Island, BC we live in do you live?

UPDATE: Finally sorted it out. Booted the PowerMac into FWTDM, dug out my old Leopard disk from the depths of storage, and popped that into my MacBook. Ran the installer and it's installing to the G4 as we speak.

Thanks to everybody who put in their two cents! It goes without saying that I couldn't have done it without all of your help! You are all fantastic.

PS, thanks for your suggestion, pm-r. No offense taken. This thread certainly was long-winded ;) and I am in the little-big city of Victoria!

Let us know how Leopard runs on that machine!

Well. we'll keep or fingers and legs crossed and hope it work and the G4 boots.

I guess the flip-flop method that was suggested to use the MB in FWTDM to do the install??

But you may be in luck as I believe with any luck, the Leopard installer installs both PPC and Intel code if I recall correctly.

Then later on, you can use the safe "Monolingual" to delete all the Intel code, surplus keyboard inputs and all the surplus and often unnecessary .lprog language folders and save a few GBs of HD space.

But read the Monolingual manual for proper use!!

What size HD did you end up with??

It installed just fine, and boots just fine..

..from FWTDM on my Macbook.
Didn't notice before, but this HD is an SCSI. I assumed it was an ATA, as that's what I told the guy I was looking for. So, I don't have an SCSI PCI card and the G4 won't recognize it.

Great. pm-r, it's an 80GB, but as good as an 80GB paperweight at this point! :lmao:

Hmmm... maybe its the wine but I'm confused. ;)

You say "... installed just fine, and boots just fine.."

And finally: "it's an 80GB, but as good as an 80GB paperweight at this point!"

So it works or not???

And then "... this HD is an SCSI."

I doubt that as most Macs haven't used SCSI drives since before the LC 630 68k Mac as I recall.

Where are you seeing the reference that it's a SCSI drive. Using a PCI expansion card could do that, but I didn't think that is what your're using.

What does the label say on the HD??

I'd really doubt that it's actually a SCSI drive.

It is not an SCSI. The guy had written that on the HD for some reason. I panicked.
All the proper cords are attached. Do I need to set this HD to "master" even though it's the only one in there?

Sorry, I just edited my previous post.

So is it booting and working or a paperweight??

Call me confused. ;)

It boots and works just fine if my Macbook is accessing it from FireWire Target Disk Mode - but I can't get the G4 to recognize it! It still gives me the flashing finder folder and "?" icon. Additionally, holding down alt/option and going to the boot selection screen shows me nothing.

I'm thinking it must be an issue with the logic board, then. The IDE controller, perhaps. Clearly, the HD itself is fine.

Try Rob's suggestion.

Page 3 post #25.

It sounds like the installer just installed the Intel code and believed that the G4 when in FWTDM was the HD it was to use, and does work.

You need to get the installer to install the proper PPC code.

Aren't old Macs fun!! ;)

And I won't bother mentioning all the time and hassles it took to get the required software installed onto my old G3 DT to recognize and get the USB PCI card I had installed some years ago and its ports working in System 9.2.2!!! Just bizarre!!

It all worked on OS X, but I needed the functionality to recover and translate some data from some old ProDos and Apple 400 and 700MB floppies. But I digress... ;)

Got it. Okay, so that's what happened, then. So, how do I get the proper PPC code on there? The G4 won't recognize my intel Macbook in FWTDM, that's why I ended up doing the install the other way around.

Oh, boy.

I don't think there's any way to control what code gets installed and I'm sure you get both PPC and Intel code with the installer.

It must do as whenever I used Monolingual.app on our G4s, it was always able to remove a LOT of Intel code.

Thinking back, if I recall correctly when installing a new clean OS on my dual-boot G4s, I had to use its original install disks and upgrade from there, as it wouldn't boot from a direct Leopard install.

Maybe contact the computer store where you picked it up from and they might be able to provide you with some help. Yhey may even have a compatible OS and drive to test that the G4 actually works.

It could also have a goofy logic board, and just because if it can boot into Target Disk Mode, doesn't mean that it will boot up normally as I discovered with a "2006 MacBook core-duo from Hell" I had a fight with. :(

sudo rm -rf /

Good thinking steviewhy, and I was going to possibly suggest CCC, but your method is better, and I'd have probably forgotten to mention the GIID/APM partition/formatting part.

Just to throw more variables into the mix...
If the data cable is a 40 wire then the master-boot drive has to be connected to the first-middle data connector. (this is most likely given the age of the computer)
And if it happens to be what is known as an 80 wire then I believe the master goes on the last data connector.
Using an external FW400 IDE enclosure my G5 powermac refuses to see a master drive on the last connector but boots fine with the drive on the middle connector.
I gleaned this info from here (http://www.mikeshardware.com/howtos/howto_connect_ide_hd.html).

Update: Installed a new HD with Tiger installed (courtesy of jamesB). When I turn the computer on, I get the grey screen with the Apple logo and the spinning wheel at the bottom. If I wait a minute or two, the Apple logo turns into a forbidden (circle with a line through it) symbol.

I've tried booting into safe mode, and no dice; I've verified the disk and repaired permissions via FWTDM; I've reset PRAM; I've gone to the boot options screen and selected the HD with Tiger (which does show up) and the same thing happens.
The last thing I'm going to try is replacing the battery on the motherboard, and if that doesn't work then I'll just be forced to assume that the board is dead.

The PRAM battery could possibly be a cause and it's easy to check with a multimeter when removed - after unplugging any AC power!!
It should read close to its original good battery reading of 3.6volts.

Also with it removed, on those G4 QS Macs, they have a "CUDA" or "PMU" reset button, usually close to the PRAM battery or next to the RAM slots. Push it ONCE ONLY for only about 3-5 seconds, and then replace the PRAM battery with decent voltage.
The reset button should be labelled and is normally about 1/4" square with a red or black tiny circular button.

If the G4 is booting to the prohibited, forbidden, no entry symbol I doubt that the logic board is a fault but no guarantee.

Have a look at:
Mac OS X: "Broken folder" icon, prohibitory sign, or kernel panic when computer starts (http://support.apple.com/kb/TS1892)
and
Prohibitory sign mac os x | Prohibitory sign on startup (http://www.macintoshfilerecovery.net/macintoshfilerecovery/prohibitory-sign-mac-osx.php)

They have some suggestions to try.

BTW: Can you boot from the G4 in FWTDM with your other Mac?

Maybe there's no ram, or not enough ram to boot Tiger.

You're wasting your time. This might be a fun job for someone who's got lots of old parts lying around, but you're just throwing your money away if you have to start buying things.

Good point!!

Edit: Except that Tiger 10.4 can work with At least 256 MB of RAM installed which came stock on that G4 - unless someone did some RAM mod.
Mac OS X 10.4: System requirements (http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1514)


I was going to add a suggestion to try using, both from a cold boot using:

- Command-S to Start up in Single User Mode
or
- Command-V to Start up in Verbose Mode

If either or both work, the resulting text may give some hint of the problem.

Rob: Agreed. I'm not going to put any more money into this thing.

The G4 does have 512MB of RAM, so it can't be that.
pm-r: I'll try and get around to giving those methods you suggested on page 6 a shot. I can and did boot into verbose mode and single user mode - I get an error about "keysomething missing" or something like that; I'll have to load it up again and check later, I read it last night, so I can't fully remember. Basically, it's telling me something is missing. Maybe a problem with the Tiger install?

If you're getting that far with the various boot processes, I'd suggest that your G4's hard drive, Ram and logic board are all OK, and something went goofy with the particular Tiger install, obviously as the boot options are saying that "something is missing" which the Mac OS X 10.4 needs.

The preverbal question is WHAT particular OS X thing is missing that it needs. Lots of ????s there.

I thought there was a 128G HDD limit on some of the older macs?

I mention this even though I'm not sure what size drive you are trying to install!
I would however buy the HDD from Canada Ram mentioned before!
Good luck!