I thought I would share and start a thread in case this helps any who is interested in shopping for new a new home.

Last weekend: the wife and I packed the kids up and went home shopping:
Drove to Milton, Klienburg, King City, Vaughan, King Village, Nobleton, woodbridge - every where on Sunday looking for a new house. I must be doing something wrong - as every new Home build we went to the cheapest was $798 + woodlot premium and upgrades, so that would equal $900+ anyway.. amazingly - everything was 90% sold out.. WTF - that means every neighborhood is a 100 MIllion dollars !?! [ all the 40s were sold and only a very few 50s left everywhere ]

We want to buy new it is our preference, since the prices of resale are so high I rather have choice with a builder.. [ yes we want a 2 car garage 4 bedroom and/or office ]

but now we have changed our search to new executive freehold towns have to be 2500+ sq rather than detached homes - as that seems to be crushingly expensive.
[ hoping possibly a town then wait for the bubble to burst and reinvest in a detached ] - I have a fairly large detached now in an area that is selling out of control - so was hoping to cash out.

One area we did not check out is Brampton as it has a bad connotation. But the prices are the cheapest in all of the GTA - by $200Gs.. seems power lines and Brampton is one thing wife will not want to live in or near by LOL

What makes our search even harder is having kids - so Catholic Schools, Grocery shopping is a must have.

if any one has questions about the sites and builder I have been to ask.. and I shall share.

Ever consider renting until it blows out?

Housing to stay ‘moderately overpriced,’ debt ratio to rise - The Globe and Mail (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/top-business-stories/housing-to-stay-moderately-overpriced-debt-ratio-to-rise/article2373876/)

Ready to be bold? Sell the house and rent - The Globe and Mail (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/personal-finance/mortgages/home-buying/ready-to-be-bold-sell-the-house-and-rent/article2418383/)

http://trendlines.ca/TrendlinesAustraliaCanadaUKUSARealtyBubbleMonitorC hart120130.png

we're looking at a retirement home in the Annapolis valley - prices are sane here.

Ever consider renting until it blows out?

Housing to stay ‘moderately overpriced,’ debt ratio to rise - The Globe and Mail (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/top-business-stories/housing-to-stay-moderately-overpriced-debt-ratio-to-rise/article2373876/)

Ready to be bold? Sell the house and rent - The Globe and Mail (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/personal-finance/mortgages/home-buying/ready-to-be-bold-sell-the-house-and-rent/article2418383/)

http://trendlines.ca/TrendlinesAustraliaCanadaUKUSARealtyBubbleMonitorC hart120130.png

we're looking at a retirement home in the Annapolis valley - prices are sane here.

We are on the same wavelength, MacDoc.

Good - we may end up sorta neighbors if this spins the correct way.

We sure like Wolfville and the price is certainly right for our long term goals. As you say....we shall see.

Looking at out two candidate properties tomorrow.

Good - we may end up sorta neighbors if this spins the correct way.

We sure like Wolfville and the price is certainly right for our long term goals. As you say....we shall see.

Looking at out two candidate properties tomorrow.

One of Lunenburg's Finest! | 95 Dufferin Street, Lunenburg | File #29 (http://www.oceanhomesnovascotia.com/properties/29/95-Dufferin-Street-Lunenburg)

This is one of the homes we were looking at in May.

One of Lunenburg's Finest! | 95 Dufferin Street, Lunenburg | File #29 (http://www.oceanhomesnovascotia.com/properties/29/95-Dufferin-Street-Lunenburg)

This is one of the homes we were looking at in May.

Wow what an amazing place. Price seems reasonable compared to here.
Enjoy it in good health!

Wow what an amazing place. Price seems reasonable compared to here.
Enjoy it in good health!

Well, they are not in a rush to sell, and we are not in a rush to move, so it is a good situation. Still, we shall see.

Your taste and budget runs far above ours.....

Real Estate Listings Annapolis Valley Wolfville Kentville Windsor Nova Scotia (http://www.mackayrealestate.ca/propertyDetail.php?239900-630)

but I do adore the deck


http://www.mackayrealestate.ca/cmsAdmin/uploads/Deck2.jpg

and after all we will be able to boast about winters in Kuranda :D

http://www.kuranda.org/montage/c3.jpg
Kuranda - Village in the Rainforest (http://www.kuranda.org/)

Wow what an amazing place. Price seems reasonable compared to here.
Enjoy it in good health!

As I say, you're not paying for the house, you're paying for how much someone else wants to live there. And in the GTA, that's a lot of people.

I plan to be househunting in a few months or so.

Very nice, Dr. G. Around here, the price would be at least double. In Vancouver, it would be millions.

or are you paying for someone else's speculative games?

real estate speculation - Toronto Real Estate Blog | Toronto Real Estate Blog (http://www.jeffreyteam.com/blog/torontorealestateblog/real-estate-speculation/)

guess no one recalls the 40% drop in the late 80s.

Just where is the rise income that supports this bubble??

http://www.popcrunch.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Musical-Chairs-Game-Show.jpg

Just where is the rise income that supports this bubble??

Why would a rise in income be necessary to support a bubble? Much of the money inflating it is from out of the country. The rest is being leveraged through down payments. The reason: people want to live in Toronto.

Just where is the rise income that supports this bubble??


Low interest rates....... Not an income rise. When interest rates rise as inevitably must happen, then the fecal material is going to hit the rotating blades for a lot of people. And it is not as if warnings aren't all over the news......

we're looking at a retirement home in the Annapolis valley - prices are sane here.

If you can take an income with you, as in retirement, the eastern provinces are definitely the best deals in real estate, particularly outside the more popular areas. Compared to Toronto and Van the Annapolis Valley looks pretty good, but the less 'hot' markets are even better.

Your taste and budget runs far above ours.....

Real Estate Listings Annapolis Valley Wolfville Kentville Windsor Nova Scotia (http://www.mackayrealestate.ca/propertyDetail.php?239900-630)

but I do adore the deck


http://www.mackayrealestate.ca/cmsAdmin/uploads/Deck2.jpg

and after all we will be able to boast about winters in Kuranda :D

http://www.kuranda.org/montage/c3.jpg
Kuranda - Village in the Rainforest (http://www.kuranda.org/)

Nice site, MacDoc. We can't boast about winters here in St.John's, which is one of the reasons we want to move upon my retirement.

Very nice, Dr. G. Around here, the price would be at least double. In Vancouver, it would be millions.

That is what we have been told by some about our home here in St.John's. The price we might get (and I stress might) if we sold today would be so high that I could not afford to take out a mortgage for this house today. :(

Yep that's the idiocy of Canada's over priced shelter. Turns out I have a good client in Bear River so gonna pick his brain while I help install a couple of drives.

Yep that's the idiocy of Canada's over priced shelter.

MacDoc, when you bundle your computers for sale, people don't speak of "the idiocy of MacDoc's over-priced bundles." I do believe that your business is based on market pricing. So is the housing market. Move to Kenora and the price of shelter declines significantly.

I recall that, at the heart of this anger about house prices, is some sort of arcane notions about the government owning all housing stock.

There's not much speculation done at the level of single-family detached/semi-detached housing. And it's the investors (many overseas--Canadian real estate is seen as a safe place to put money) buying condos to rent that's keeping rental rates relatively low in Toronto, because it's currently the only real growth in rental stock... and while there are renters of all income levels, there are a lot more at a lower income. You start move top-level renters out of condos and into apartment buildings, our already low vacancy rate drops further, and pushes rents up even higher.

Besides, isn't it a form a speculation to try and time the market by selling out now, renting for a few years, and waiting for house prices to drop?

Lots of people got burned on that particular form of speculation in this unprecedented 16 years of consecutive growth. They missed out on 16 years of equity building; meanwhile, they have money in the bank earning peanuts in interest.

I don't understand the notion of renting and waiting it out. To me it is just money down the drain. Someone has to explain that to me.

I don't understand the notion of renting and waiting it out. To me it is just money down the drain. Someone has to explain that to me.

Not that I advise waiting it out, but there is a financial argument to be made for renting instead of owning.

Typically, people rent a smaller place than they're likely to buy. If someone took the difference is rent vs. carrying costs and invested it wisely, they may make more money than they otherwise would in equity.

So it can make sense to rent rather than buy (particularly in this time of high prices) but not everyone has the discipline and investing skills to put away the difference every month and invest it well.

To the OP:

Have you looked at Bolton? Our niece lives there and they love the community. I see some new subdivisions going up just north of town.

Not that I advise waiting it out, but there is a financial argument to be made for renting instead of owning.

Typically, people rent a smaller place than they're likely to buy. If someone took the difference is rent vs. carrying costs and invested it wisely, they may make more money than they otherwise would in equity.

So it can make sense to rent rather than buy (particularly in this time of high prices) but not everyone has the discipline and investing skills to put away the difference every month and invest it well.

Ah that makes more sense. Thanks. Yeah I would spend the difference on a new camera. ;)

Take a look at Innisfil. A lot more property for your money and growing.

i might consider selling now and renting until the eventual correction, except that i despise moving.

the thought of moving a few times until i was once again a home owner would be absolute torture.

plus how big is the correction going to be? IMO probably 20% at most (barring a complete financial meltdown in which case everything will be screwed)

rent vs owning.. if I am not mistaken - if you rent you can 'write it off' vs ownership - you can not.. it is based on usage and other criteria - but that said..
everything downtown toronto is from overseas investments - hence - 400 sq ft units selling for $500,000+ [ as builders no longer care to build reasonable units - 3 bedrooms etc ] - the demand is for tiny units and then they rent them out to locals..
the bad news is that foreign investors usually become - slum lord lands, meaning good luck trying to get anything repaired..

Which drives detached homes higher in price for those who want more square footage are now paying for it. Seems the second largest country on the planet is running out of living space, which to me is really hard to believe.
I drove to Brampton against my wire's will - we ended up in a place called Credit Ridge [ homes start at $800 to $1.1 ] - when speaking to the builders, reason for the high pricing is they are refusing to build homes that are towns or semis also on large 'green' areas.. so everything is 42 and 50s and 60s lots.. Also they mentioned that want to make that a sought after expensive part of Brampton because it is so close to Mississauga and next to Mississauga Road [ which has a reputation of being expensive ]. Move in is not till next year summer of later. Or those who bought late last year - spring 2013.

At this point I am not sure what to do.. There is interest of in our home for 980ish - so I should I sell or not.. I am so confused. [ I have some slight interest now to purchase in Brampton too ] The funniest thing is every where we go it is 90% sold out.. bizarre.

I hate moving - as i have two kids.. which is murder to keep relocating them .

So why you moving? Why sell a 1 Mil home to buy another 1 Mil home? Do you have to move?

It sounds like you are moving for no real reason. Because you have looked at all areas and even home types.

You can't write off rent, unless you have a low income in which case you can write off a portion of your rent or your property taxes. (Or you have a home-based business, but again, owning vs. renting doesn't matter at that point.)

The GTA is in part surrounded by a green belt (the Oak Ridges Moraine) in which no one can develop. (My dad had some land bordering on this, and it's been a long struggle to unload it, because even developing near the moraine is problematic.) While this means that there's a limit to sprawl (a good thing, IMO) it also means that inside the GTA is only going to get denser and denser.

But hey, in the second-largest country on earth, there's LOTS of space to build spacious, affordable new housing surrounded by lots of land--it's just not going to be in the GTA.

I'm also with i-rui, in that I don't think we are likely to see a dramatic correction in Toronto. When interest rates go up (and one day they will) prices will come down, but at the moment it seems unlikely that rates will rise quickly... so the correction will be gradual. Most likely, it's going to be a slowdown rather than a crash.

I'm also with i-rui, in that I don't think we are likely to see a dramatic correction in Toronto. When interest rates go up (and one day they will) prices will come down, but at the moment it seems unlikely that rates will rise quickly... so the correction will be gradual. Most likely, it's going to be a slowdown rather than a crash.

You can't give back the remote.

Low interest rates....... Not an income rise. When interest rates rise as inevitably must happen, then the fecal material is going to hit the rotating blades for a lot of people. And it is not as if warnings aren't all over the news......


Yeah, but let's face it, those warnings are stupid. They are way too early - you're yelling wolf. Interest rates are not going up for another year, heck with the Euro problem it may be longer. When they finally do go up, they aren't going to go up fast.
Which is good, because I'll be renewing my Mortgage next year, about this time.

But then I'm not the one that needs the warning! Even if interest rates go up, I'm well within my mean to pay my mortgage off early.

Good luck macintosh doctor on your House finding!!!

Yeah, but let's face it, those warnings are stupid. They are way too early - you're yelling wolf. Interest rates are not going up for another year, heck with the Euro problem it may be longer. When they finally do go up, they aren't going to go up fast.
Which is good, because I'll be renewing my Mortgage next year, about this time.

But then I'm not the one that needs the warning! Even if interest rates go up, I'm well within my mean to pay my mortgage off early.

Good luck macintosh doctor on your House finding!!!

I heard that 7 years ago when I purchased my house and locked in my rate with the broker before I took possession. Then when I renewed 2 years ago my interest rate was even lower. :confused: and the price of my house has doubled. But I not going to sell just because I could make a profit because if the price of my house went up so has everyone else's and I have to buy another house so I am not ahead. The only reason to move, sell and buy another house would be for a good reason. That reason may exist soon but as far as I know time travel is not possible so who knows when the interest rate will increase. History can say it will but you can't put the genie back in the bottle and you can't take away the remote.

I heard that 7 years ago when I purchased my house and locked in my rate with the broker before I took possession. Then when I renewed 2 years ago my interest rate was even lower. :confused: and the price of my house has doubled. But I not going to sell just because I could make a profit because if the price of my house went up so has everyone else's and I have to buy another house so I am not ahead. The only reason to move, sell and buy another house would be for a good reason. That reason may exist soon but as far as I know time travel is not possible so who knows when the interest rate will increase. History can say it will but you can't the genie back in the bottle and you can't take away the remote.

Likewise, we locked in rates with some of the apartment buildings a few years ago... and rates dropped. Now, what was a good rate when we locked in is a terrible rate today, and this devalues the building some. But whatever--nothing we can really do about it now.

I have never been a proponent of trying to time the real estate market, particularly when it comes to your own personal home--a house can be a good investment, but you need to weigh in a lot of non-investment factors into the decision.

In any case, I have my very first (and completely fabulous) condo development coming up for sale in a few weeks, so the market needs to stay strong at least until then. ;)

"It is assumed here that the first policy rate increase will be implemented in autumn 2012, which is a few months ahead of market expectations," the OECD said Tuesday.

'People should think twice about continuing to leverage up in order to buy more house than maybe they really need'
—OECD economist Peter Jarrett
The OECD made a similar suggestion to Canada's central bank a year ago, and was ignored. The U.S. Federal Reserve has already publicly pledged to keep America's benchmark rate at effectively zero until 2014 at the earliest.

"Further increases … will also be needed in 2013," Tuesday's OECD report added, noting it hopes the rate will be at 2.25 per cent by the end of 2013.

Bank of Canada governor Mark Carney, Finance Minister Jim Flaherty and other policymakers have warned Canadians to get their financial houses in order in advance of rising rates for a year. The federal government has tightening mortgage lending rules for CMHC-insured mortgages, but thus far Canada's central bank has had its hands tied in terms of raising rates.

who knows?? HE knows.....

Canada urged to hike interest rates - Business - CBC News (http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/story/2012/05/22/oecd-canada-rates.html)

I recall a similar announcement about rates going up next fall being given in the spring of 2008.... needless to say, that did not happen.

So I'll stick with "who knows" for now.

I recall a similar announcement about rates going up next fall being given in the spring of 2008.... needless to say, that did not happen.

So I'll stick with "who knows" for now.

I heard the same thing.

who knows?? HE knows.....

Canada urged to hike interest rates - Business - CBC News (http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/story/2012/05/22/oecd-canada-rates.html)

Sorry, but he doesn't know the future. No-one does. He can GUESS what's going to happen, but he doesn't know. And he's basing that on what he knows today, which can be different in a month.

To the OP:

Have you looked at Bolton? Our niece lives there and they love the community. I see some new subdivisions going up just north of town.

I have a brother that lives north of the town in the new division there and a cousin who lives in town.. It is a place I am not fond of driving too.
As it takes us 1 hour to get to them from us , connections to immediate hiways you have to drive forever to get too. [ and if they close 50 or 427 - you pretty much have to slice your wrists before getting home ] - [ currently we are close to the 401,qew,403]

I was there on the weekend to attend a church service, after that we were to have lunch at the mandarin - I looked over to my wife and saId.. wow - so much driving just to get anything done..
The only grocery store is Zhers and Costco is a day trip from Bolton, The Catholic Church that is there, which is where we attended the service - has 'an interpreted' version of mass, which is too much for us to handle [ we are more traditional than 'new' Catholics - coming from Orthodox]

its probably why homes are almost $600Gs there. Also having young kids, I do not want them bused or us having to drive to get them to school..

The positives of all the places we looked at have connections to Hiways [or alternatives in case hiways are closed] - choice of shopping plus schools are walking distances.. - I guess that is why they are demanding the prices [ other than the homes are amazingly large and finished beautifully.] - easy path to DownTown Toronto

As of last night my wife and I decided to hold off from selling.. a regroup and re assess our situation.. [ one of the reasons for our move is our neighbor ] so if we are to move, we were looking for woodlots and 50s or bigger. [ those lots are the first to go and demand the most - but after having lived our life - you will understand ]
IMHO - Bolton doesn't offer any of that.. { don't mean to offend those that live there }

We almost came close to buying a property last night in Estates of Credit Ridge..
We looked at a home that is 4300'sq ft, on a 55' by 120' massive woodlot; the builder was going to throw in 80Gs of upgrades and options plus finished basement [ as we bought from them previously. ] - there is a catholic school walking distance being built next to the house - faces credit river road - but wife is hung up on two things - house has incorrect sun exposure and it is 14 KMs north of were we live now.. so that would add a little more travel time to Down town or in General any major 'shopping mall' i.e SQ 1 etc.
yes we are picky but when you are going to spend $800 + you better be sure it is the right place for you. [ but they do have a walmart with a grocery store within it 2 KM from the house. ] - we are so torn over this .