A friend of mine at work decided to upgrade his corporate IBM laptop with a 5400rpm drive to a OCZ Vertex 2 out of own pocket without a lack of better judgement. I told him it was Windoz and all of the crap the company puts on it to slow it down. :rolleyes: But that is not the problem I have and it really got me thinking of whether I should revisit upgrading my MBP E2011 drive to an SDD. When I got my laptop, I right away pulled the 5400rpm drive for a 7200rpm drive of the same size and have no problems with it whatsoever and its just getting slow nowadays.

Defragging the disk has not provided much improvement, so the validity of having a disk defragger seems to be a waste of time and money. So enter the SDD discussion, I have done some research and would like some feedback from anyone having experience with them. Here are the following candidates:

OCZ 480GB Vertex 3 SSD - Sandforce 2281 - 3 Year warranty
OCZ 512GB Vertex 4 SSD - Indilinx (Indilinx was bought by OCZ to replace the Sandforce technology) - 5 Y warranty
OWC 480GB Mercury Extreme - Sandforce 2281?? (Rebrand of OCZ Vertex3??) - 5 Year warranty

So what is my criteria? Performance, storage longevity, reliability
What do I do? I use I/O intensive applications like VMWare Fusion and Parallels
Current storage usage 250-260GB

I would assume the Vertex 3 and the OWC are the same product, but I don't see the technical details if they are the same.

Any feedback is helpful

ImToast

One thing to consider is wether or not ur MPB can do SATA at 3 or 6GB/S. That might be some consideration to what drive you'd put in there.

Another option to consider would be to pull the optical drive and drop a drive into an optibay case. That drive could be another SSD and then RAID the two drives or just move your existing drive over for storage of data you don't need to ultra fast speed for. I have a Muskin Chrono's drive in my main bay and a 1TB Hitachi drive in the optical bay that holds my iTunes library. Tons of space on both drives and total cost is a lot less then the large SSD's.

One thing to consider is wether or not ur MPB can do SATA at 3 or 6GB/S. That might be some consideration to what drive you'd put in there.

The HD bay is 6Gbps capable, however negotiated at 3Gbps for the current SATA II drive. The optibay is only 3Gbps. :( I wasn't lucky to get a MBP with dual 6Gbps.

Another option to consider would be to pull the optical drive and drop a drive into an optibay case. That drive could be another SSD and then RAID the two drives or just move your existing drive over for storage of data you don't need to ultra fast speed for. I have a Muskin Chrono's drive in my main bay and a 1TB Hitachi drive in the optical bay that holds my iTunes library. Tons of space on both drives and total cost is a lot less then the large SSD's.

I agree in your suggestion, but losing out on having an internal DVD/CD drive is a issue for me, even when I don't use it much at all. I guess I have a thing against having too many external devices. :cool:

ImToast

I've got the OWC Mercury Extreme 6G 480GB in my main drive bay and a Mushkin Chronos 240GB in my optical bay. I'm totally fine with this. Works like a charm, so far. From what I understand, you can't boot from a SSD in your optical bay.

Just put the optical drive in an external case...you likely don't use it that much and the cases are so slim it doesn't take much room in your bag if you do need to bring it along the odd time. You might as well get used to it as we won't have any choice soon enough

The OWC is reknown for its Mac compatibilty. OCZ has been spotty with the quality of firmware the drives deliver with, and it requires a PC to update them.

The OWC is not a rebrand of the OCZ product, although they both use the same controller chip, the OWC has different firmware. They do not manufacture in house, these drives are most likely made by the same contract factories as AData, Celerity, and other SSDs we have seen.

If you have transaction-intensive software, then ignore the maximum sustained read and write figures, and focus on the IOPS and the read-write performance with 4 KB Random blocks.

The Vertex 4 with the Indilinx controller
128 MB 256 MB 512 MB
Random 4k Read IOPS2 90,000 IOPS 90,000 IOPS 95,000 IOPS
Random 4k Write IOPS2 85,000 IOPS 85,000 IOPS 85,000 IOPS
Maximum IOPS3 120,000 IOPS 120,000 IOPS 120,000 IOPS

The Vertex 3 with the Sandforce controller
120 240
Random Write 4KB: 60,000 IOPS 60,000 IOPS
Maximum 4K Random Write: 85,000 IOPS 85,000 IOPS

The Vertex 3 MaxIOPS version with the Sandforce controller
Random Read 4KB: 35,000 IOPS 55,000 IOPS
Random Write 4KB: 75,000 IOPS 65.000 IOPS
Maximum 4K Random Write: 85,000 IOPS 85,000 IOPS


OWC - comment, I am not liking the consistency of the specification across different sizes and different models, there should be variation with size at least. I suspect OWC is using the "Up to" cop-out to give one blanket set of specifications across all of their sizes and lines rather than testing and disclosing the specs on each model. Larry, you can do better than that...

OWC Electra 3G (SF 2181) 120 GB 240 GB
Random 4K Read Up to 60,000 IOPS 60,000 IOPS
Random 4K Write Up to 60,000 IOPS 60,000 IOPS

OWC Mercury Electra 6G
Random 4K Read Up to 60,000 IOPS 60,000 IOPS
Random 4K Write Up to 60,000 IOPS 60,000 IOPS

OWC Mercury Extreme 6G
Random 4K Read Up to 60,000 IOPS 60,000 IOPS
Random 4K Write Up to 60,000 IOPS 60,000 IOPS

From what I've heard with OCZ, I'd stay away from them.

I have a few OCZ's in various machines at the moment and they're all doing fine. Just make sure they have the latest firmware and you shouldn't have any more issues then most other brands. If reliability is really a priority just go with an Intel

I've got the OWC Mercury Extreme 6G 480GB in my main drive bay and a Mushkin Chronos 240GB in my optical bay. I'm totally fine with this. Works like a charm, so far. From what I understand, you can't boot from a SSD in your optical bay.

Booting from the optibay is not an option for me considering its only 3Gbps (SATAII) performance.

Just put the optical drive in an external case...you likely don't use it that much and the cases are so slim it doesn't take much room in your bag if you do need to bring it along the odd time. You might as well get used to it as we won't have any choice soon enough

LOL... You make it sound like I don't have a choice. I was wondering if there were any external Blu-ray player/burners compatible with the MBP then I would definitely consider it. BTW can you recommend a really nice external casing for the DVD drive should I go that route?

The OWC is reknown for its Mac compatibilty. OCZ has been spotty with the quality of firmware the drives deliver with, and it requires a PC to update them.

The OWC is not a rebrand of the OCZ product, although they both use the same controller chip, the OWC has different firmware. They do not manufacture in house, these drives are most likely made by the same contract factories as AData, Celerity, and other SSDs we have seen.

If you have transaction-intensive software, then ignore the maximum sustained read and write figures, and focus on the IOPS and the read-write performance with 4 KB Random blocks.

The Vertex 4 with the Indilinx controller
128 MB 256 MB 512 MB
Random 4k Read IOPS2 90,000 IOPS 90,000 IOPS 95,000 IOPS
Random 4k Write IOPS2 85,000 IOPS 85,000 IOPS 85,000 IOPS
Maximum IOPS3 120,000 IOPS 120,000 IOPS 120,000 IOPS

The Vertex 3 with the Sandforce controller
120 240
Random Write 4KB: 60,000 IOPS 60,000 IOPS
Maximum 4K Random Write: 85,000 IOPS 85,000 IOPS

The Vertex 3 MaxIOPS version with the Sandforce controller
Random Read 4KB: 35,000 IOPS 55,000 IOPS
Random Write 4KB: 75,000 IOPS 65.000 IOPS
Maximum 4K Random Write: 85,000 IOPS 85,000 IOPS


OWC - comment, I am not liking the consistency of the specification across different sizes and different models, there should be variation with size at least. I suspect OWC is using the "Up to" cop-out to give one blanket set of specifications across all of their sizes and lines rather than testing and disclosing the specs on each model. Larry, you can do better than that...

OWC Electra 3G (SF 2181) 120 GB 240 GB
Random 4K Read Up to 60,000 IOPS 60,000 IOPS
Random 4K Write Up to 60,000 IOPS 60,000 IOPS

OWC Mercury Electra 6G
Random 4K Read Up to 60,000 IOPS 60,000 IOPS
Random 4K Write Up to 60,000 IOPS 60,000 IOPS

OWC Mercury Extreme 6G
Random 4K Read Up to 60,000 IOPS 60,000 IOPS
Random 4K Write Up to 60,000 IOPS 60,000 IOPS

The issue that I have run into is the marketing crap that has changed with the word "up to" indicating a issue with performance or lack of optimal performance. I agree with your suggestion of using IOPS as a deciding factor, but when manufacturers skew the specs with marketing speak it makes it very difficult to choose the correct product from a consumer perspective. I also don't like the variance between device size performance and its almost to the effect of trying to up sell the consumer by purchasing a faster or larger drive, when its only a firmware tweak happening in the background.

I have glanced at Intel and Samsung, but they are really pricey and in some cases been deemed as "Enterprise" class performance and wondering if this is just a money grab. You being a seller of SSDs what has been popular with purchasers, understanding users have different purposes than I do.

From what I've heard with OCZ, I'd stay away from them.

Could you please provide clarification, as it is somewhat ambiguous to state to "stay away" from them.

I have a few OCZ's in various machines at the moment and they're all doing fine. Just make sure they have the latest firmware and you shouldn't have any more issues then most other brands. If reliability is really a priority just go with an Intel

So how many firmware upgrades do I have to go through in a cycle? What is the impact of each firmware to my filesystem and what performance issues or enhancements am I going to see?


I appreciate everyone's dialog on this and certainly educational.

ImToast

I have an OWC in wife's MBP and love it but a 3G, i Had an OWC 3G in mine then sold it to get myself the enterprise version of the OCZ 6G 480 up to 550MB/s
Love it, no faults yet and it files. Deneva2 is being used by all storage colos for their choice of drives for cloud raids, also intel for the ultra books
So I figured safe bet to get it.
Another brand I do like is patriot Wildfire same spec as the OWC 6G
I went Ocz because it was cloud enterprise rated - which to me means it will last.
But IMHO if buying SSD DON'T BE CHEAP or it will bite you in the rear.

Look for these specs in an SSD sandiforce and

- TRIM support (O/S dependent)
- DuraClass technology
- DuraWrite technology extends the endurance of SSDs
- Intelligent Block Management and Wear Leveling
- Intelligent Read Disturb Management
- Intelligent "Recycling" for advance free space management (Garbage Collection)
- RAISE. (Redundant Array of Independent Silicon Elements)
- Intelligent Data Retention optimization
- Best-in-class ECC protection for longest data retention and drive life.
- Power/Performance Balancing
- Thermal Threshold Management

There was a study a while back and some of the server wonks put the consumer SSDs in their heavy use machines and found no different failure rate than the enterprise rated....and a lot less money.

But yeah that class spec list is a good reference.

In some cases it's not the drive itself that is at issue but a defective lappie can brick them up. I managed two in two weeks in Australia thanks to a wonky top case. And people need to be aware that if it bricks it's gone so back up is even more important even tho the failure rate is lower than mechanical drives.

The other big issue is to keep up to date on firmware. We've yet to figure a way to let clients know easily that there is new firmware for their SSD. So those buying various brands have an eye open on the website.
OWC posts theirs up and it's installable from a Mac in most cases.

OWC Solid State Drives Support For Mac (http://eshop.macsales.com/tech_center/OWC/SSD/Mac)

I have an OWC in wife's MBP and love it but a 3G, i Had an OWC 3G in mine then sold it to get myself the enterprise version of the OCZ 6G 480 up to 550MB/s
Love it, no faults yet and it files. Deneva2 is being used by all storage colos for their choice of drives for cloud raids, also intel for the ultra books
So I figured safe bet to get it.
Another brand I do like is patriot Wildfire same spec as the OWC 6G
I went Ocz because it was cloud enterprise rated - which to me means it will last.
But IMHO if buying SSD DON'T BE CHEAP or it will bite you in the rear.

Look for these specs in an SSD sandiforce and

- TRIM support (O/S dependent)
- DuraClass technology
- DuraWrite technology extends the endurance of SSDs
- Intelligent Block Management and Wear Leveling
- Intelligent Read Disturb Management
- Intelligent "Recycling" for advance free space management (Garbage Collection)
- RAISE. (Redundant Array of Independent Silicon Elements)
- Intelligent Data Retention optimization
- Best-in-class ECC protection for longest data retention and drive life.
- Power/Performance Balancing
- Thermal Threshold Management

I went to the "Enterprise" OCZ website and found that their Deneva2 performance numbers in IOPS were much lower than the consumer Vertex 3/4 and the Indilinx?? I don't understand how manufacturers can getaway with published number of their products varying across the board using the same damn Sandforce 2281 chipset?!?

The points you have mentioned here seems to come from manufacturer tooting their horn, I wonder who that may be?

ImToast

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m269/macdoc/Screenshot2012-05-07atMay72012112236PM.jpg

I'd not get too bogged in details. They are all practically "instant response" for the user.
The OWC gear works and good warranty and fast replacement if any issues plus they are on top of the game in firmware which is important.

OWC - as much as i love the products and think they are amazing.. you have to send it back to the US for service and warranty..
OCZ - hate them or love them, warranty is done in Canada [ I believe a place located in Markham ]
all things to consider.

No you don't. We can advance exchange OWC here. You do need an RMA tho.

No you don't. We can advance exchange OWC here. You do need an RMA tho.

That's good to know that advance exchange is offered- to ease having to deal with cross border.

LOL... You make it sound like I don't have a choice. I was wondering if there were any external Blu-ray player/burners compatible with the MBP then I would definitely consider it. BTW can you recommend a really nice external casing for the DVD drive should I go that route?

I believe there are BluRay drives that will work with our MacBooks but I haven't had need to look into them so can't really comment on brands etc. I got a cheap external shell for my SuperDrive from eBay that works well enough and looks very much like the Apple external drive. That said given how cheap the Samsung etc externals can be had I'm not sure i'd bother looking for an external case for the superdrive.

As for firmware all the Sandforce based models had issues until they resolved the firwmware awhile back. OCZ hasn't released a new version in quite a while now and ours have been rock solid since then. I'm trying a Muskin Chrono's out in my own machine at the moment and initial testing indicates that its a bit faster then the Agility I had in before.

I've been mostly in the windows world for the last year because of my work, but I'm slowly getting back into my Mac stuff at home, and I've had lots of experience with SSD's lately.

If IOPS are more important than sustained throughput, the new OCZ Vertex 4 is really good. If you need high IOPS and really high throughput also, the Vertex 3 MAX IOPS edition or Muchkin Cronos Deluxe are really great, albeit pricey. Just below those, the Intel 520 series does a great job, and is the most reliable on the market. all of the above drives use synchronous NAND.

Going to more value lines, like the Mushkin Cronos, OCZ Agility and others typically means going to asynchronous NAND. Personally, I can't really tell the difference in everyday use, so those drives are a good value in performance per $.

Now if only it wasn't so darned difficult to replace the hard drive in a 2011 mac Mini... argh!

Could you please provide clarification, as it is somewhat ambiguous to state to "stay away" from them.


I've tried to look around for comments and feedback on OCZ's SSDs since some of the computer stores I know seem to always have them on sale. From what I've seen around the web on places like Amazon and NewEgg, Both OCZ's and Corsair's SSDs seem to be extremely unreliable, with many units failing within days or weeks of purchase. This seems to particularly hit OCZ's lower end SSDs like the Petrol. It seems to be linked to a combination of a buggy SandForce chipset and bad firmware.

Micron seems to be pretty decent though, in addition to OWC, Intel and Samsung.

I can't speak to the overall failure rate of different SSD brands, but bear in mind that OCZ probably sells more SSD's than many of the other brand because of low pricing, so you would expect more failures. I have bought two of that brand, a 60 gb Vertex about three years ago and a 120 gb Vertex 2 about a year ago, both on fire sale pricing. Both were bought through NCIX, and both were put in PC netbooks. I had no problems whatsoever with either. Not much of a sample size, but worth mentioning. I'm now considering purchasing a 240 gb model. NCIX puts the OCZ's on sale almost weekly, so once again the prices are very good on these units. If I decide to go for one, I will likely buy OCZ again.

I have been dilly-dallying around with this and for the most part still trying to research the reliability of SSD products. Reliablity is a large concern, but not so much that it would cripple me in the sense of not being able to use my laptop for days or weeks on end until a replacement drive arrives. I backup on a daily basis using imaging tools and TM to cover my basis and provide me the additional insurance. However, I do note the inconvenience factor of a unreliable product and we have all been there causing undue stress identifying if we have lost any of our precious information or work data for that matter.

As of right now, I am short listing the following products with some comments towards, them.

OCZ Vertex 4 512GB
------------------

Indilinx Chipset

Pros
----
- High performance in terms of IOPS and random IOPS
- High bandwidth throughput for both read and write
- Moderately priced in terms of cost per GB (matter of opinion :) )
- 5 Year Warranty

Cons
----

- Unproven chipset
- No advanced replacement (I am aware of)
- Unproven reliability
- Moderately priced in terms of cost per GB (matter of opinion :) )

OWC Mercury Extreme 480GB
-------------------------

Sandforce 2281 Chipset

Pros
----

- High performance in terms of IOPS and random IOPS
- High bandwidth throughput for both read and write
- 5 Year Warranty
- Advanced replacement (THANKS MACDOC!! :D )
- Proven reliability

Cons
----

- Highly priced in terms of cost per GB (matter of opinion :) )

I have looked at other brands and also into the eMLC (Enterprise) SSD and seeing them as overkill in terms of pricing for what you get or too cheap indicating a possible issue of some sort or unoptimized products. If anyone would like to share their experience with SDDs I would like to know.

ImToast

Personally I've had more platter based drives fail then SSD's so for me personally I assume all drives will fail and just make sure I have TM backups running for that eventuality. If something did go wrong I have enough temp drives on hand that I could clone to one of those and keep running until the original drive was replaced so that's not a huge concern for me...though I'm not running in a production environment at home.

Although, I am not running a production environment on my MBP, however, it does perform the functions of both business and personal need. I do understand moving parts will generally wear over time or have mechanical defects. When it comes to SDD, the problem becomes the actual manufacturing process or the design process and also the software/firmware placed on the SSD, There are a number of vendors offering the same product lines of SSDs, but each one has their own pricing scheme, reliability and performance.

I think as a consumer, I would generally want the biggest bang for the buck, without the sacrifice or the fear of premature failure leading to unexpected events in data recovery or the inconvenience of having a failure. If I have to pay a small premium, I should generally feel that I have made the right choice in a product, but you know it never lasts as other products may have been the proper choice.

So, I think there has been a considerable amount of chatter regarding OCZ to warrant an exclusion from my decision and my only choice would be to go with the OWC at this time. I think OCZ's Vertex 4 for may have been ideal for me, but given some of the responses and the fact this is new technology unproven by the masses may not be the right choice for me. I am not one for being a guinea pig as I have done this many times before and learned my lesson over and over.

Any comments??

ImToast

Personally I've had more platter based drives fail then SSD's so for me personally I assume all drives will fail and just make sure I have TM backups running for that eventuality. I

You reflect the larger scale failures - SSD seem twice as reliable as platter based.
However - there is no in between for the data.
Platter based drive failure you often can get date retrieved....SSD fugedaboudit.

So back up is very important.

OWC is conservative in the their drive size to reflect additional redundancy so that's why you see 480 versus 512.

One warning to everyone tho - firmware needs to be updated and there is not reliable way other than visiting the site.
If you have had your drive for a while check.
OWC lists their updates and I know there was one in March.

Platter based drive failure you often can get date retrieved....SSD fugedaboudit.

Untrue. SSD's are a recoverable media contrary to what many people claim otherwise. It's more difficult, and generally more expensive, but doable all the same.

Talk is cheap - show us the link?

Talk is cheap - show us the link?

No link. My data recovery partner recovered data from a water-damaged MacBook Air SSD the other week. I can't speak for all SSD's, but he said that SSD's were a medium that he does perform recovery on.

Checked my SSD and it needs the March firmware update. Mine is a MBP 2011 8,2 so downloaded the file and got a disk image. Burned the disk image to a DVD as per install instructions then supposed to restart holding down option key and follow instructions below. I have only two disks to choose from the Mac HD which is the SSD and the Lion Recovery disk. When I select the mac HD it opens the desktop and nothing happens. If I double click on the many files in the .dmg window, there is one marked install but nothing inside it will carry on with the install. What am I missing?

Istand corrected on SSD recovery- our recovery guy has a procedure

Yes but not cheap. Is this an encrypted Intel SSD
drive? All chips have to be removed and seperatly read and then stitched together via software. $$$!


ouch

Checking Sinc with the staff that does it - somehow you are not getting a bootable DVD.
Will post it up.

Is your machine on the list for the boot disc compatible.
If so staff says maybe try different media.

Checking Sinc with the staff that does it - somehow you are not getting a bootable DVD.
Will post it up.

Figured it out. Used Toast to burn DVD, didn't work. Then tried Disk Utility and it worked right away. Lesson there. Oddly enough, I do not require the update even though I got the SSD in December and the update is from March. Weird:

First I followed the instructions to get the firmware version on my SSD. (332ABBF0)

Then compared it to the current version number in red box which states it should be:
(501ABBF0)

So why then does the update say not needed?

Talk is cheap - show us the link?

I will send you an invoice for my link

Data Recovery by DriveSavers | All Drives, RAID, SSD & iPhones (http://www.drivesaversdatarecovery.com/)

they can recover iPhones, iPads, ssd any flash..

except you were late to the party - a few posts back

Istand corrected on SSD recovery- our recovery guy has a procedure

Quote:
Yes but not cheap. Is this an encrypted Intel SSD
drive? All chips have to be removed and seperatly read and then stitched together via software. $$$!
ouch

••

Good tip Sinc - I'll ask Larry to put that note on the site to burn with Disc Utility.

The amount it costs to do data recovery can buy one quite a few external hard drives...

If the warranty is five years, I'd say go for it. Just have a bootable clone ready to go at any time if downtime was an issue. I'm seriously thinking of adding SSD to my Dell Vostro, it may give it a new lease on life. Since it's strictly a business machine now, 60GB oughta be enough.

except you were late to the party - a few posts back


never late when posting valuable info.. it is always good to know where and who can recovery SSDs and iPhones, iPad etc...
if they can they can recovery the HDs from the NASA Columbia Shuttle which blew up- then they can recover an SSD
:)

... my response to the last dozen posts or so...

Just always be backed up and forgetaboutit.... end of story. I mean seriously. That's it that's all... HD or SSD. :)

... my response to the last dozen posts or so...

Just always be backed up and forgetaboutit.... end of story. I mean seriously. That's it that's all... HD or SSD. :)

The amount it costs to do data recovery can buy one quite a few external hard drives...

++++!!!

I am a little scared of the sandforce stuff. If you search around there are some issues with them. I'd go with a Marvel based drive, if it was my data. Intel are good too, but expensive. The Crucial M4's is what I am giong to get.

How do you know if your opti-bay is 6gbs or not? I have an early 2012 MBP i7.

~S

I would stick with Sandforce Drives.. better specs.. - it is was the enterprise drives use and every one in the industry.. even intel 525 switched to sand force - they did not have good experiences with Marvel.. but to each its own..

as for the second part.
- apple logo, click on about this mac then click on more info then click on system report.
then select serial ata
if it is says intel 6 series twice you are good to go
if it says intel 3 and 6 click on it and find out which is which..
but based on your info you should be fine and at 6..
:)
good luck

Trim Enabler (http://www.groths.org/?page_id=322)
trim enabler

Thanks for the reply.

I should have stated that I have not personally had problems with SF drives, but had a friend who did, and when I tried to fix the issue for him, the nets were full of people (individuals, not enterprise) with similar corruption issues. (I hate it when people pass 2nd hand knowledge on as their own, and now I just did it.) It has made me decided to get a Marvel. Are you saying that intel no longer makes ssd chips? They are just using SF's?

Are there any issues with having an ssd in the opti bay? Can I boot off of it? Does laptop still sleep, etc.

Thanks,
~S

How do you know if your opti-bay is 6gbs or not? I have an early 2012 MBP i7.

click the Apple icon > About this Mac > System Profiler (More Info) then in the left column click on Serial-ATA and it will show you both the hard drive bay and optical bay Serial ATA speeds. I am fairly sure yours is new enough to be 6 on both ports.

I think I have made my decision regarding which SSD I am going to purchase. I think, I am going to go towards the OWC Mercury Extreme 6G for my MBP. I am attracted to having an advanced replacement, but also a local dealer that can provide me with the highest personal service. The only thing I need to understand is TRIM and whether it is needed for the OWC or not. The other is whether I have to worry about compatibility with 10.7.x or later Mountain Lion.

ImToast

I think I have made my decision regarding which SSD I am going to purchase. I think, I am going to go towards the OWC Mercury Extreme 6G for my MBP. I am attracted to having an advanced replacement, but also a local dealer that can provide me with the highest personal service. The only thing I need to understand is TRIM and whether it is needed for the OWC or not. The other is whether I have to worry about compatibility with 10.7.x or later Mountain Lion.

ImToast

My experience with my OWC SSD is it is not... it is as fast now as the day I bought it which was about a year ago, BUT I only use it as a boot drive... i.e. not for data. For data I have RAID 0 stripped drives for data.

I think I have made my decision regarding which SSD I am going to purchase. I think, I am going to go towards the OWC Mercury Extreme 6G for my MBP. I am attracted to having an advanced replacement, but also a local dealer that can provide me with the highest personal service. The only thing I need to understand is TRIM and whether it is needed for the OWC or not. The other is whether I have to worry about compatibility with 10.7.x or later Mountain Lion.

ImToast

For the OWC drives, there is nothing you need to do besides install it. And it's future-proof for all versions of Mac OS X - OS X doesn't care what your drive is, only how it's formatted.

My experience with my OWC SSD is it is not... it is as fast now as the day I bought it which was about a year ago, BUT I only use it as a boot drive... i.e. not for data. For data I have RAID 0 stripped drives for data.

screature, please pardon my understanding of your english. Are you stating that the OWC is not performing to what you expect or is it? Since I am not running a Mac Pro, I do not have the luxury of stripping drives on my MBP as I only have 2 SATA connection and both of which do not have equal performance. What I may tend to do is to move my 750GB SATA II drive to the optibay and have the OWC SSD in where the HDD was. I would then use Super Duper to backup the SSD to the HDD so I can have a fast backup over SATA than FW800.

I wonder would I be able to boot the HDD if it is in the optibay?

ImToast

For the OWC drives, there is nothing you need to do besides install it. And it's future-proof for all versions of Mac OS X - OS X doesn't care what your drive is, only how it's formatted.

That's good to know, but I still have to keep up with the firmware upgrades as mentioned with this thread?

ImToast

Originally Posted by screature
My experience with my OWC SSD is it is not... it is as fast now as the day I bought it which was about a year ago, BUT I only use it as a boot drive... i.e. not for data. For data I have RAID 0 stripped drives for data.

That's odd as it should not perceptively change speeds - have you tested it???

Also for MacPros we also prefer striped Velociraptor arrays for workspace - tho a small SSD in addition makes for a good user experience and scratch disc.

i/o is critical on graphics and layout work and the difference over a single 7200 rpm drive is stunning.
One client came back and striped a pair of 120s for his MacPro he liked it so much.
•••

Yes you can boot off the Optibay - you certainly don't need to stripe SSD in a 6g environment.
There is no issue with forward compatibility.

I didn't think you could boot from the optical bay.

I didn't think you could boot from the optical bay.

This.

On many models it's not possible - I've had this experience with my clients as well; SSD's non-bootable off the optibay connection.

screature, please pardon my understanding of your english. Are you stating that the OWC is not performing to what you expect or is it? Since I am not running a Mac Pro, I do not have the luxury of stripping drives on my MBP as I only have 2 SATA connection and both of which do not have equal performance. What I may tend to do is to move my 750GB SATA II drive to the optibay and have the OWC SSD in where the HDD was. I would then use Super Duper to backup the SSD to the HDD so I can have a fast backup over SATA than FW800.

I wonder would I be able to boot the HDD if it is in the optibay?

ImToast

That's odd as it should not perceptively change speeds - have you tested it???

Also for MacPros we also prefer striped Velociraptor arrays for workspace - tho a small SSD in addition makes for a good user experience and scratch disc.

i/o is critical on graphics and layout work and the difference over a single 7200 rpm drive is stunning.
One client came back and striped a pair of 120s for his MacPro he liked it so much.
•••

Yes you can boot off the Optibay - you certainly don't need to stripe SSD in a 6g environment.
There is no issue with forward compatibility.

Some misunderstanding here guys as to what I was saying. I was replying to the portion of Imtoast's post where he asked:

...is TRIM and whether it is needed for the OWC or not...

So I replied:

My experience with my OWC SSD is it is not... it is as fast now as the day I bought it which was about a year ago

So in other words TRIM is not necessary (at least when using the SSD as only a boot drive) in my experience as my OWC SSD is as fast now as the day I bought it, i.e. no performance degradation without TRIM.

The reason why I mentioned that I only use it as a boot drive is because it is only ever reading and writing relatively small files. My understanding is that when writing large files on an SSD over time there can be some performance degradation without TRIM enabled.

I suspect this is one of the reasons why Apple now offers BTO options where you can have an SSD as your boot drive and a second drive (HD) to use for data.

I hope that clears up what I was saying.

MacDoc I am more than happy with the the OWC SSD as a boot drive, compared to my stripped Raptors that I had as boot drive before the OWC SSD, the difference is night and day. Perhaps the performance of stripped Velociraptors would equal or outperform that of my OWC SSD as a boot drive but it also would have been significantly more expensive at the time.

Screature, Thank You for the clarification as I wasn't sure if the performance of the OWC SSD was to your expectation.

ImToast

Striped Raptors woud be about the same on sustained - not on day to day where SSDs always are peerless.

Anyway of know in advance if I can boot an SSD out of opti bay? I can't afford to give up the space of my HDD, but can't put HDD in opti-bay because of SMS sensor.

I don't want to buy SSD unless I know I can boot off optibay.

Thanks,
~S

Anyway of know in advance if I can boot an SSD out of opti bay? I can't afford to give up the space of my HDD, but can't put HDD in opti-bay because of SMS sensor.

I don't want to buy SSD unless I know I can boot off optibay.

Thanks,
~S

Forget the SMS - it isn't that great at saving drives if the unit is dropped in any case. Put the regular drive where the optical drive is now and the SSD in the main drive bay.

Forget the SMS - it isn't that great at saving drives if the unit is dropped in any case. Put the regular drive where the optical drive is now and the SSD in the main drive bay.
Thats what i Did.. removed the super drive and bought a bracket and put the 750 HD in place.

This.

On many models it's not possible - I've had this experience with my clients as well; SSD's non-bootable off the optibay connection.

i think this is only later models when using sata 3 drives, no?.

2011 MBPs with sata 2 ssds in optical have always booted fine for me, its only when using a sata 3 ssd that trouble starts. i have tried several brands and no luck yet.

After some more research, I am leaning towards the Samsung 830, or Intel 520 based on reliability and speed. If I can keep the HDD, then 120GB should be lots.

The samsung is only $145 at the Intel at $182. I'll likely just get the samsung as it is getting great reviews, and is $40 cheaper.

~S

After some more research, I am leaning towards the Samsung 830, or Intel 520 based on reliability and speed. If I can keep the HDD, then 120GB should be lots.

The samsung is only $145 at the Intel at $182. I'll likely just get the samsung as it is getting great reviews, and is $40 cheaper.

~S

Read this article.
AnandTech - The Samsung SSD 830 Review (http://www.anandtech.com/show/4863/the-samsung-ssd-830-review/6)
It's about the 830 and trim and garbage collection. - its not built in like OCZ OR OWC and performance takes a hit. So if you get it installed trim enabler.

Nice tip. I leaning towards the intel 520 due to power consumption and warranty. I'll make up my mind this weekend.

Does TRIM have to be enabled in LION? I thought Lion added native trim support?

on Page 5 of the thread, I have posted a link earler on -Lion trim is only for apple drives not 3rd party.

You can enable trim in lion using a 3rd party app if you think you need it. I just let the sand force chip do its garbage collection and that seems to work well enough.

Well my intel 520 is on the way. I only got a 120GB, and am looking for ways to keep certain files off of it. For music, video etc, I'll likely just create an alias to the 750 HDD. But what about the swap file? This file gets written to often, and would be a sure way to clutter the SSD. I have found ways to relocate the swap file, but I am wondering if this would cut into battery life, as it would prevent the HDD from sleeping.

Thoughts?

I wouldn't be concerned about the swap file...you'll get the best performance with it on the SSD and read/writes are not really an issue. You will have moved on to a new computer / drive long before it becomes and issue.

Although, I am still waiting for my SSD, I have come to the realization that 480GB is not enough and will now have to pair down items that should not be on the SSD. I am thinking my VMs will have to move to the 750GB HDD and not reside on the SDD. Or I could just buy a 3G SATA SSD.

ImToast

Well I just checked and my early 2011 15" i7 MBP only has sata2 to optibay. Bummer. So I'll move hdd to optibay, and ssd to regular slot. Do I have to disable any sensors?

Well I just checked and my early 2011 15" i7 MBP only has sata2 to optibay. Bummer. So I'll move hdd to optibay, and ssd to regular slot. Do I have to disable any sensors?

This is a bad idea as optibay's are not cushioned as the intended HDD bay is and subsequently it's more likely the HDD will get damaged.

Meh, just back up the hard drive. Mission critical will be the SSD drive.

I agree just make sure you have backups. Lots of laptops don't cushion drives.

This is a bad idea as optibay's are not cushioned as the intended HDD bay is and subsequently it's more likely the HDD will get damaged.

OWC sells HD brackets for use in the Optibay, which is what i have my drive in and SSD in the main HD slot.

I seem to be missing something here... Doesn't the Optibay have any sort of padding, considering the SD has sensitive moving parts susceptible to damage from shock or heavy jarring? I would assume there would be some level of protection for the SD and of which should be adequate for the HDD. I am getting an OWC bracket for my HDD, but if this padding is an issue where can this padding be placed with the lack of space within the Optibay area? What material would you use?

I myself backup everyday as part of my routine, and it shouldn't bother me, but it's a pain being inconvenienced.

ImToast

Lets face it the little rubber grommets in the hard drive bay aren't going to do much to stop a bump anyway so I wouldn't be all that concerned. As I said lots of laptops don't have any protection for their drives (my IBM ThinkPad for example) so it can't be that big a deal. Just do your backups and sleep easy.

Lets face it the little rubber grommets in the hard drive bay aren't going to do much to stop a bump anyway so I wouldn't be all that concerned. As I said lots of laptops don't have any protection for their drives (my IBM ThinkPad for example) so it can't be that big a deal. Just do your backups and sleep easy.

... and don't drop your laptop... :D

... and don't drop your laptop... :D

you left out.. Restless leg syndrome - people who use their laptops on their knees while they are jiggling/bouncing their feet/ legs - always gives me pleasure to watch..

I'm doing a bit of a 180 on my stance Re: OCZ's reliability, the OCZ Agility 3 SSD uses 0.5W idle vs. 0.71W for the OWC Electra 3G, and the price is slight better as well, or I could go with a higher capacity drive if I wanted to spend a bit more. My only concern is that OWC was made with Macs in mind so it has built in garbage control, but I found some Terminal stuff that will enable TRIM in drives via what's built into Mac OS X. Grant Pannell — TRIM Enabler for Lion (http://digitaldj.net/2011/07/21/trim-enabler-for-lion/)

Reliability? Three year warranty and I'll keep a clone at all times just in case. The MBP is super easy to open up anyway to replace the drive.

http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph4346/37946.png

My only concern is that OWC was made with Macs in mind so it has built in garbage control, but I found some Terminal stuff that will enable TRIM in drives via what's built into Mac OS X. Grant Pannell — TRIM Enabler for Lion (http://digitaldj.net/2011/07/21/trim-enabler-for-lion/)

Pretty sure the Agility3 also has built-in garbage control hence the 240 gb capacity vs 256 gb, I think one of the Nand chips is used by the SandForce controller for this purpose. I personally wouldn't enable trim control for this reason (just my 2¢). FWIW, I've been using an Agility 3 for months and it seems just as blazingly fast as the day I installed it. Put one in my wife's MBP a while back and both have been solid.

Pretty sure the Agility3 also has built-in garbage control hence the 240 gb capacity vs 256 gb, I think one of the Nand chips is used by the SandForce controller for this purpose. I personally wouldn't enable trim control for this reason (just my 2¢). FWIW, I've been using an Agility 3 for months and it seems just as blazingly fast as the day I installed it. Put one in my wife's MBP a while back and both have been solid.

Thanks for your personal review! I'll take your word for it. If I sense it slowing down, I'll use the Terminal method to enable TRIM, otherwise I'll just let the SSD do its thing. :) Have you noticed any effect on battery life? As long as I don't lose a single minute, I'm happy.

Have you noticed any effect on battery life? As long as I don't lose a single minute, I'm happy.

I have the Agility3 in the HD bay & an Hitachi platter drive in the opti-bay & still get pretty good battery life, (I do try to dismount the HDD when I'm not using it if I remember). My wife's MBP only has the Agility 3 & shows about 6 hrs available after a recharge while surfing at full brightness with wifi.

I have installed two Agility 3's this week already (must be a sale on at Canada Computers, because we've had loads of people calling about having them installed) and after testing them once they were installed I can say, they stink! Despite manufacturers claim of read 525MBps and write 500MBps, on 6GBps interfaces (one MacBook Pro and one iMac) neither broke 200 write or 165 read... first time I wasn't sure if there was a fault with the interface, so I threw in a different SSD (Crucial m4) and it was over 500 (as expected). Almost the exact same numbers presented with the second Agility 3...

Sigh...the Agility and other SSD's are typically advertised using benchmarks that use compressible data so they give very high speeds. Most tests we would use to bench test though use data that is incompressible and so you get more accurate real world results. It isn't a problem with the drive, Macbook or interface speed.

Sigh...the Agility and other SSD's are typically advertised using benchmarks that use compressible data so they give very high speeds. Most tests we would use to bench test though use data that is incompressible and so you get more accurate real world results. It isn't a problem with the drive, Macbook or interface speed.

We've been through this before in another thread.

Crucial m4, and others, advertise and meet 500MBps+ in the same tests the Agility 3 only meets 200MBps...

True but the m4 is a lot more expensive then the Agility. I'm using a Chronos drive now that out performs the Agility I had previously but to be honest I don't notice any difference in day to day use.

True but the m4 is a lot more expensive then the Agility. I'm using a Chronos drive now that out performs the Agility I had previously but to be honest I don't notice any difference in day to day use.

It's about a $9 difference at 120GB.

Edit: Sorry, $15.

There's not much price difference. In the end, I was willing to sacrifice a bit of performance to get better power consumption. The OWC Electra 6G only does 280 MB/s for compressible data anyway. My MBP is only SATA2 so it would be pointless to get a 500 MB/s drive. I will be getting way better than HD access times and speeds and that's good enough for me.

A 128GB Crucial M4 was on sale for $105 over the weekend at NCIX.

Bootup time to when the glowing dot shows up with AutoCAD (ready to run)

Seagate Momentus 7200RPM 500GB HD - 74 seconds
OCZ Agility 3 120GB SSD - 29 seconds

:D I like it.

Prices have sure come down a lot then...it was more like $50 back when I was shopping a few months ago. At that price its a no brainer.

Seems my SSD is only running at SATA1 speeds. I'm going to try to update the firmware later on. It's still quite fast, and expected battery life seems to have jumped up by about half an hour to an hour.

Seems my SSD is only running at SATA1 speeds. I'm going to try to update the firmware later on. It's still quite fast, and expected battery life seems to have jumped up by about half an hour to an hour.

Is your SSD in the hard drive bay? The latest FW for the Agility 3 is 2.2.2. AKAIK there have been no major issues with Macs since 2.1.5. One of mine is at 2.1.3 and the other is at 2.1.5 and both are stable and running at Sata3 (6gbs) from the HD bay in early '11 MBP's.

I did upgrade to 2.2.2, still SATA1 speeds. Oh well. I'm not going to look too much into it, it's still very, very fast. My MBP only has SATA2 btw. 2.2.2 was supposed to correct it and bring it up to SATA2 speeds.

Helping a friend pick out an SSD for his 2008 unibody MacBook

After live-chatting with OWC we ascertained that the machine needs the 3G type.

Looking at:

Crucial V4 256GB 2.5" SATA 3Gb/s Solid State Drive (SSD)
Canada Computers | Solid State Drives | Crucial V4 256GB 2.5" SATA 3Gb/s Solid State Drive (SSD) (CT256V4SSD2) (http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=179_1087&item_id=053221)

or

OWC 240GB Mercury Electra™ 3G SSD
Search Results for Mercury Electra 3G 240GB at MacSales.com (http://eshop.macsales.com/search/Mercury+Electra+3G+240GB)

Are there any strong feelings here between these?

Helping a friend pick out an SSD for his 2008 unibody MacBook

After live-chatting with OWC we ascertained that the machine needs the 3G type.

Looking at:

Crucial V4 256GB 2.5" SATA 3Gb/s Solid State Drive (SSD)
Canada Computers | Solid State Drives | Crucial V4 256GB 2.5" SATA 3Gb/s Solid State Drive (SSD) (CT256V4SSD2) (http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=179_1087&item_id=053221)

or

OWC 240GB Mercury Electra™ 3G SSD
Search Results for Mercury Electra 3G 240GB at MacSales.com (http://eshop.macsales.com/search/Mercury+Electra+3G+240GB)

Are there any strong feelings here between these?

OWC all the way. The reason why the OWC is 240GB vs. 256GB is because of the portion of it that is used for over provisioning that keeps the drive from slowing down over time.

It is definitely the better drive IMO.

Helping a friend pick out an SSD for his 2008 unibody MacBook

OWC 240GB Mercury Electra™ 3G SSD
Search Results for Mercury Electra 3G 240GB at MacSales.com (http://eshop.macsales.com/search/Mercury+Electra+3G+240GB)

Are there any strong feelings here between these?

The OWC is a SandForce controlled SSD... I would avoid it.

why? OWC is a first rate choice for mac users. I have had no problem with mine at all, I haven't heard of problems with this?

Unless theres info I'm not aware of?

The OWC is a SandForce controlled SSD... I would avoid it.

I think that sandforce issue has been resolved according to all the reading I did when I was thinking about getting one.

I think that sandforce issue has been resolved according to all the reading I did when I was thinking about getting one.

Indeed G-Mo is a bit behind the curve:

Anandtech (http://www.anandtech.com/show/6107/corsair-force-series-gs-240gb-review/11)

SandForce doesn't have all that great a track record when it comes to reliability, although most issues have been fixed by now.

Moreover it seems he hasn't read reviews of the Crucial v4 256GB:

Crucial v4 256GB scorecard

50 (out of 100, my edit)

Pros: Great capacity in a SSD but that's about it. Expensive versus the competition, including Crucial's own m4.

Cons: Weak performance. Crucial hindered the v4 too much and it shows. SATA 3Gb/s. The drive is not on par with today's drives, regardless of price point.


techspot.com (http://www.techspot.com/review/566-crucial-v4-vs-ocz-agility-4-ssd/page10.html)

Just to add, my OWC drive is terrific and has had no speed degradation what-so-ever with zero reliability issues.

Thanks all for the input. I have had an OWC 3G in my laptop for over two years now with no problems. My gut was to reco that, but wanted to gather other opinions.

I currently have 4 OWC SSD's in use in different systems, nary a problem with any of them.
The oldest has been in use for almost 3 years and based on my favorable experience with it, I've continued to purchase others as needed.

I think that sandforce issue has been resolved according to all the reading I did when I was thinking about getting one.

I would agree from what I've read, and supported from some other members recent posts, as well as others and recent reviews on the 'net.

Indeed G-Mo is a bit behind the curve:

Anandtech (http://www.anandtech.com/show/6107/corsair-force-series-gs-240gb-review/11)



Moreover it seems he hasn't read reviews of the Crucial v4 256GB:



techspot.com (http://www.techspot.com/review/566-crucial-v4-vs-ocz-agility-4-ssd/page10.html)

Just to add, my OWC drive is terrific and has had no speed degradation what-so-ever with zero reliability issues.

I wouldn't recommend the v4 either, it's an entry level underwhelming budget product.

As for SandForce, "most issues" resolved?! No thanks. Sorry you all bought them. Sorry you feel you now have to vehemently defend them. Sorry I've seen more issues with them day-to-day-to-day than any other controller. Sorry there's way more reliable controllers out there for the same price. Sorry that multiple SSD manufacturers have now moved away from SandForce. Sorry, even with firmware updates that (again!) seem to fix "most issues", I still won't trust or recommend them.

Best of luck with those of you who have them.

I vote for Samsung 840 Pro. It's very fast and very power efficient. I'm under the opinion that it should be very reliable as well.

I vote for Samsung 840 Pro. It's very fast and very power efficient. I'm under the opinion that it should be very reliable as well.

I'd back that any day! (And in fact have one in my cart on Newegg.)

Hmmmm... G-Mo, your negative SandForce comments seem to be pretty generalized regarding some SandForce based SSDs, and granted some early version models had some problems with and when used with some Mac models with various OS X versions.

But I don't think it's as bad as you make out the SandForce "problem" to be.

And BTW: what's your opinion or choice for such an SSD that use "way more reliable controllers"?

And "multiple SSD manufacturers have now moved away from SandForce" controllers? Really?

Maybe you see more problems south of the equator where the SandForce SSDs don't work properly, just like your toilet bowls when being flushed swirl in the wrong or different direction from any intended working design? ;) ;)

A lot of the drives recommended over the OWC ones seem to be 6G. I have read in some other forums that they don't fall back so well to previous speeds 3Gb/s. (I'm guessing this is SATA III drives falling back to SATA II speeds) Is there any truth to this or would it be myth?

Hmmmm... G-Mo, your negative SandForce comments seem to be pretty generalized regarding some SandForce based SSDs, and granted some early version models had some problems with and when used with some Mac models with various OS X versions.

But I don't think it's as bad as you make out the SandForce "problem" to be.

And BTW: what's your opinion or choice for such an SSD that use "way more reliable controllers"?

And "multiple SSD manufacturers have now moved away from SandForce" controllers? Really?

Maybe you see more problems south of the equator where the SandForce SSDs don't work properly, just like your toilet bowls when being flushed swirl in the wrong or different direction from any intended working design? ;) ;)

Exactly.

I vote for Samsung 840 Pro. It's very fast and very power efficient. I'm under the opinion that it should be very reliable as well.

It wasn't one of the options stated... But it sounds like an excellent drive at a very good price.

You bet. It's $40 less than the OWC Electra 6Gs for the 256GB model, and we all know that Samsung makes great SSDs, otherwise they wouldn't be so highly coveted in our MacBook Airs and Pros. I couldn't believe the power efficiency you get from the 840 Pros, they use the same power as my OCZ Agility 3 which has 1/3rd the incompressible write speed of the Samsung blazers. 120GB is not enough for me anymore so I might as well upgrade performance and capacity at the same time.

Not a fan of the naming convention, however. There's the slower Samsung 840 with lower incompressible write speeds and they use more power, and then the Samsung 840 Pro I talked about above. Kinda confusing.

Also agree with the Sandforce controller they've had their issues with the first gen but it's been a non-issue for the past couple of generations.

Does anyone know where the best place is to buy the mac mini kit to add a second drive? I would prefer somewhere local(GTA) to avoid shipping costs. I'm considering adding an SSD to my mac mini and prefer to deal locally.

thanks for any suggestions!

Does anyone know where the best place is to buy the mac mini kit to add a second drive? I would prefer somewhere local(GTA) to avoid shipping costs. I'm considering adding an SSD to my mac mini and prefer to deal locally.

thanks for any suggestions!

All you need is the bottom SATA cable, 4 x 8mm rubber grommets and 4 hard drive mounting screws ...

Mac Mini Server Bottom Hard Drive Flex Cable - 922-9560 076-1412 (http://www.powerbookmedic.com/Mac-Mini-Server-Bottom-Hard-Drive-Flex-Cable-p-20708.html)

All you need is the bottom SATA cable, 4 x 8mm rubber grommets and 4 hard drive mounting screws ...

Mac Mini Server Bottom Hard Drive Flex Cable - 922-9560 076-1412 (http://www.powerbookmedic.com/Mac-Mini-Server-Bottom-Hard-Drive-Flex-Cable-p-20708.html)

Logic Board Removal Tool helps too...