I am responding here to two comments in the Canadian Political Thread. I did not want to derail that thread with a specific issue that may come to affect many more Canadians. To that end, I am quoting these two people from that thread in this new thread.

I'm not up on the hospital wait time issue or deteriorating schools but Power in Ontario is heavily subsidized and with the exception of Quebec and NFLD it's subsidized too. It's a matter of time before the other provinces will have to let rates rise to reflect actual costs. These problems are quite routine across the country. It's something we all need to grapple with and make improvements.

I really agree with Don that the Cons totally messed things up when they deregulated the energy utilities. Albertans having sold the electrical infrastructure at 10¢ on the Dollar are seeing electrical bills that are often double the going retail price of electricity. It is a sore point around the province aggravated by new transmission lines being built to feed out of province demand but the cost billed to Albertan consumers. It will get worse as the Power Generators will then expand to provide the out of province consumers and you can bet there will be yet another surcharge to Alberta Consumers when that happens.

The two comments above led me to show everyone just how deregulation of your power bill can affect you. Here is a copy of my power bill for Dec 9 to Jan 16 when they read my meter two different times in the period and charged me two different rates for power as they increased their rates. (Meters are now read remotely.)

My current budget billing plan costs me $225 a month every month of the year for an 1,100 sq. ft. bi-level home with three people living in it. Last year I had to pay over $400 extra in August to make up the shortfall of that $225 a month plan and totalled about $3,100 for electricity for the year ended August 31, 2011.

Note in the copy of my bill below, that in addition to my actual power costs of $252 even, they tack on an "administration charge" of $8.74, presumably the cost of billing me.

Next come the delivery charges which I will never understand how so many firms get a piece of the action:

Distribution charge $55.89, Transmission charge of $34.20, Rate riders of $27.23, a local access fee of $0.63 and a mystery credit called a balancing pool allocation rider of ($6.53) for a total bill for a single month of $390.76.

All this from my supplier Epcor, owned by the city of Edmonton and shared revenue with at least three other firms that remain hidden.

If jimbotelecom's comment is right, this is what you can expect with deregulated electricity rates in your province.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/46939750/Linked%20Photos/powerbill.jpg

SINC, Ontario's electrical rates are regulated and they are brutal. The problem is simply that these utilities no longer believe they should be producing large amounts of power at low prices. They're so mixed up with the province's social engineering and enviro-loony wings that raising prices is a desirable policy to them because it cuts back usage. When usage is cut back, it no longer covers the cost of their too-expensive infrastructure, including windmills and failing solar arrays, so they need to raise rates to cover it.

It's been a while since I've personally seen a hydro bill that wasn't a bulk meter, but we pay a lot of hydro in Ontario. Plus, we get some odd charges like debt retirement charge, Global Adjustment, etc.

In fact, here, this are all the odd things they charge us for:
Electricity Rates | Toronto Hydro Electric System (http://www.torontohydro.com/sites/electricsystem/residential/yourbilloverview/Pages/ElectricityRates.aspx)

To be clear in Alberta, The electrical company pays the power plants somewhere around 4¢/KWH that's delivered to our meter. We are then billed at 8-12¢/KWH and all sorts of additional made up charge are added in so the final price often ends up somewhere around 25¢/KWH. We are being gouged and the Conservative government is directly responsible.

We are being gouged and the Conservative government is directly responsible.

No, the corporations who are gouging you are directly responsible. The conservative government is responsible for catering to the corporate lobbyists who argued that deregulation is what the industry needs to be profitable.

{edit to add: of course, assuming that the conservatives announced their plans to deregulate the industry before they were elected, anyone who voted for them is responsible for being so foolish as to believe that deregulation is a good idea. And if they didn't announce it, anyone who voted for them is responsible for being so foolish as to believe that Conservatives would protect consumers (or the environment) from rapacious corporations}

Shocking indeed (pun intended). It never pays to let private companies have a say in essential services. Ontario's system is quite different. In Ottawa the municipal government owns the power utility which produces some energy via hydro and solar, but the main source of power is brought into the city via Hydro One (the Province) mains where the electricity is generated from the Pickering Nuclear facility. My household usage for 60 days was 1982.96 kWh. We have three different time of day charges and we tend to use most of our energy off-peak. Total cost for this was $255.46.

My bill would be about 35 to 40% higher but I removed the electric hot water tank for a gas on demand system - one of my brighter moves.

I have little doubt Ontario's rates will rise. The Harris government was set to deregulate power pricing in the province but Earnie Eaves chickened out when he wanted to get elected and backed off. McGuinty has followed suit. There were plans to build another Nuclear facility but post Japan crisis those plans have been shelved. Prices will edge up over time though.

Prices will edge up over time though.

Not edge... LEAP. Prices expected to rise by more than a third over the next five years.

Not edge... LEAP. Prices expected to rise by more than a third over the next five years.

It's a matter of perspective. I know that there is a 2% increase being implemented on distribution and transmission rates that will be reflected on my next bill. Our usage drops significantly in April/May so they play games with you before A/C season kicks in in late June.

Wow. I don't know what you're doing out there, but my bill is on average $100 a month. For a 2500sq/ft home.

I looked into flat rate contracts, but they ding you with all the same fees, plus a "Global Adjustment" that makes it even more expensive than Usage based billing (which works just fine with me).

A7

Before deregulation I used to be billed for X number of kw used at a rate of X per kw. What I want to know is where the heck did administration charges, distribution charges, transmission charges, rate riders, local access fees and a balancing pool allocation rider come from?

They are clearly designed to squeeze more revenue out of consumers, but why are they allowed?

^^^^^^

That's really not much different than my place at $255 for 60 days - 3800sq. ft.

Before deregulation I used to be billed for X number of kw used at a rate of X per kw. What I want to know is where the heck did administration charges, distribution charges, transmission charges, rate riders, local access fees and a balancing pool allocation rider come from?

They are clearly designed to squeeze more revenue out of consumers, but why are they allowed?

That is how we are billed here in NL -- 13 cents per kw. We now only have to pay GST on electricity and heating oil, since our province has given consumers an "energy rebate" of our provincial sales tax or 8%. What exactly is a "balancing pool allocation rider"???

^^^^^^

That's really not much different than my place at $255 for 60 days - 3800sq. ft.

I know... my point exactly. My comment was directed at Sinc. $390 per month for an 1100sq/ft home? Something is wrong with that, no matter how you look at it.


As for the "Balancing pool" thing, from what I understand, when you are on RPP (Regulated Price Plan, as most of Canada has) they allocate you into a "pool" of similar consumers and if the whole pool uses more or less energy than they estimated for, you get an extra charge or a credit.

A7

T What exactly is a "balancing pool allocation rider"???

No one seems to know.

I know... my point exactly. My comment was directed at Sinc. $390 per month for an 1100sq/ft home? Something is wrong with that, no matter how you look at it.


As for the "Balancing pool" thing, from what I understand, when you are on RPP (Regulated Price Plan, as most of Canada has) they allocate you into a "pool" of similar consumers and if the whole pool uses more or less energy than they estimated for, you get an extra charge or a credit.

A7

No one seems to know.

If that is a "balancing pool", why the fee for a "regulation rider"? What is a "regulation rider"???

If that is a "balancing pool", why the fee for a "regulation rider"? What is a "regulation rider"???

From what I read, the rate rider is to cover unexpected sudden rate increases. So, to clarify; The pool is about the amount (quantity) of energy forecast (this is almost always a credit) and the rider is about the cost of the energy.

A7

From what I read, the rate rider is to cover unexpected sudden rate increases. So, to clarify; The pool is about the amount (quantity) of energy forecast (this is almost always a credit) and the rider is about the cost of the energy.

A7

Interesting. Merci, mon ami. "Live and learn".

I know... my point exactly. My comment was directed at Sinc. $390 per month for an 1100sq/ft home? Something is wrong with that, no matter how you look at it.

I might suggest browbeating Hydro (and yes, you will likely have to browbeat them) into examining your meter. We've found that this sometimes is the cause of unusually high bills.

The other thing (and this isn't something you can do much about) is that apparently, the amount of voltage on the line varies, which affects you cost. It was a few months ago when someone explained this to me, so I will likely get the details wrong. But the gist of the explanation is, that hydro puts out a lot more power at the front of the line to account for some amount that's lost as it travels over the line, and so some customers are being charged for the excess of power, even when they aren't using it.

There's not much that a home consumer can do about this though--I learned about it via a sales call from some people who were selling a device to regulate the voltage and lower costs, but the cost of such a device requires buildings of 200+ units to even be worthwhile. They were proposing a modified version to test on us for slightly smaller (~100 unit) buildings, but the cost of it was something like $50,000.... I suspect it will be a long time before it scales down to home users.

I just received my electrical bill online and for the first time I looked closely at what was involved in tabulating the final total. I forgot that on Jan. 1st, our rates came down from 13 cents/ kWh to 10.407 cents kWh (the public utilities board ordered this decrease in cost to the consumer due the fact that Fortis Inc. had made a larger profit than expected). I am really not sure why we get an additional discount of 1.5% of the total charge, but I do know that the Residential Energy Rebate of 8% was brought in by the provincial government to lessen the total cost of heating oil and electricity. There is a basic customer charge of $15.71, but this covers any repairs to the lines that might result in wind/ice/snow damage, as well as line repair and meter reading and upgrades. So, it is not too much, in my opinion.

So, I guess we are not doing too badly compared to AB. To be honest, I was surprised that it was not higher, since we ship over $1 billion of electricity to Hydro Quebec for a cost of only $27 million due to the Churchill Falls agreement made back in the 1960s.

This Month's Electric Charges
Basic Customer Charge 15.71
Energy Charge: 587 kWh @ 10.407 cents/kWh
Discount: 1.5%
Harmonized Sales Tax: 13%
Residential Energy Rebate: 8%

Sinc, looking at your bill, seems as if the charge per kW/h went UP on Jan. 1st. As well, those fees are outrageous. I checked my bill even closer, and it seems as if we get a small 1.5% discount if we don't have electricity as our sole source of heat (we have an oil furnace and a wood stove). If electricity was my sole source of heat, I would have gotten a 3.5% discount.

I think that you are FULLY justified in asking "What I want to know is where the heck did administration charges, distribution charges, transmission charges, rate riders, local access fees and a balancing pool allocation rider come from?

They are clearly designed to squeeze more revenue out of consumers, but why are they allowed? "

Sinc, just checked out Epcor's site. Seems as if Epcor is closely tied to Capital Power Corp. Got this from their website.

"About Capital Power Corporation

Capital Power (TSX: CPX) is a growth-oriented North American power producer headquartered in Edmonton, Alberta. The company develops, acquires, operates and optimizes power generation from a variety of energy sources. Capital Power owns more than 3,300 megawatts of power generation capacity at 16 facilities across North America. An additional 487 megawatts of owned wind generation capacity is under construction or in advanced development in British Columbia, Alberta, and Ontario.

About EPCOR Utilities Inc.

EPCOR’s wholly-owned subsidiaries build, own and operate electrical transmission and distribution networks, water and wastewater treatment facilities and infrastructure in Canada and the United States. EPCOR, headquartered in Edmonton, Alberta, is an Alberta Top 55 employer. EPCOR’s website is www.epcor.com."

Stock Quote - The Globe and Mail (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/markets/stocks/summary/?q=CPX-T)

Here are some interesting rate comparisons:

Comparison of Electricity Prices | Hydro-Qubec (http://www.hydroquebec.com/publications/en/comparison_prices/)

Wow. I don't know what you're doing out there, but my bill is on average $100 a month. For a 2500sq/ft home.

I looked into flat rate contracts, but they ding you with all the same fees, plus a "Global Adjustment" that makes it even more expensive than Usage based billing (which works just fine with me).

A7

We had a bill damn near $500 (Sherwood Park, Alberta) for January before we decided to sign up for a contract. It is vulturism, pure and simple.

Here are some interesting rate comparisons:

Comparison of Electricity Prices | Hydro-Qubec (http://www.hydroquebec.com/publications/en/comparison_prices/)

I have a house in Montreal and one in Ontario - the rates in Montreal are about half of the rates I pay in Ontario.

In fact, it's about 30% cheaper tp heat with electricity in Montreal than with oil.
I just replaced an existing oil furnace which took up a fair chunk of the basement the way it was located with an electric furnace which is about two foot square and hangs on the wall.
Also got rid of two 200 gallon oil tanks which gave me back a small room.

I was a bit concerned that the electric furnace wouldn't be able to heat the house when it got really cold but no such issue.

The decision for me in Montreal was really between natural gas and electricity - I chose electricity because it's a renewable resource in Quebec where most of it is hydro generated.

Here are some interesting rate comparisons:

Comparison of Electricity Prices | Hydro-Qubec (http://www.hydroquebec.com/publications/en/comparison_prices/)

Hydro Quebec gets over a billion dollars of free electricity from NL. Thus, they can afford to help out customers in Montreal. NL negotiated a stupid deal re Churchill Falls power, and now is on the hook until 2041 to supply Quebec with all of this power. By 2009, NL is on the hook for all costs of upkeep and repair to the Churchill Falls facility, thus making it a losing proposition for NL -- we will not even get enough money from Hydro Quebec to cover these costs. :mad::ptptptptp

Just saved some more money going to electric heat in Montreal!

Doorbell just rang - team wanted to do the annual chimney cleaning - ha, no longer required.