considering this.....what lens for birding ( hand held mostly )

Panasonic Lumix DMC-GF3K Digital camera - mirrorless system - 12.1 Megapixel - Black

http://lh5.googleusercontent.com/public/pyo-W2TGrC5L968w6CoHMANAl-t4jHw8IByA5PecZTEBMaQ-reJqg9x3GGcUmSciEQ05SZiJRlyUYVF4uXNB2JcDzD3xwKyuvy E_lRnS5Lnk0MnHiWNX3JZe1x2no2mhCl5K-Ly-9KuPjY-cvp1N

Panasonic Lumix DMC-GF3K Digital camera - mirrorless system - 12.1 Megapixel - Black

$409 online
26 reviews
#4 in Mirrorless System Panasonic Lumix Digital Cameras
June 2011 - Panasonic Lumix - Mirrorless System - 12.1 megapixel - Crop Sensor - 3 x optical zoom - Live MOS - Pop-up Flash - ISO 6400

With an adoption of new mount, the DMC-GF3 achieves dramatic downsizing compared with the predecessor DMC-GF2. It breaks the record of being the world's smallest and lightest interchangeable lens system camera again. Even though pursuing the ultimate compactness, Panasonic did not compromise in the equipment of camera such as built-in flash. The DMC-GF3's tiny, stylish round-form design adopting aluminum dispels impression for conventional big, heavy and colorless digital SLRs. It is stunningly compact but yet comfortable to hold with the new ergonomically studied grip. Operation is also smooth and easy with new control dial and so on. The DMC-GF3 features the world's fastest level of Light Speed AF featuring approx. 0.1 second which is achieved by reducing the detection time for focusing by doubling the drive speed from 60 fps to 120 fps. Not only the accuracy but also the speed excels by far than the high-end digital SLRs with phase-difference AF with the advanced contrast AF system in the DMC-GF3. Combined with the touch AF control, setting and focusing at the subject is incredibly easy and quick, never missing the spur-of-the-moment. With the world's first introduction of digital interchangeable lens to make 3D shooting possible with an interchangeable lens system camera, Panasonic proposes to enjoy high-quality shooting in 3D with the DMC-GF3. This new compact 3D-capable interchangeable lens, LUMIX G 12.5mm / F12, allows easier handling and instant 3D shooting with cameras without a special structure for 3D shooting. It produces 3D images without distortion or time lag between left and right images, even for moving objects. The 3D images, even close-up shots, taken with this lens are easy on the eyes when viewed on VIERA 3D TVs. Panasonic made a breakthrough by adding this special way of unprecedented expression in photography with outstanding ease with the innovative technology. « less

Like the size and wicked fast AF

What lens would you use with that body? for birding I've always been left wanting for reach.

Depends how serious you want to get when you say birding. The faster the lens (higher F stop) typically is better, and the longer zoom + IS is also important if you want to capture from any distance. Also spend time learning which settings to use on the camera is essential. If you want to get serious shoot in either full manual, AV (aperture priority) or TV (shutter priority) with an appropriate ISO for the lighting conditions for best results. If you're doing big zooms a monopod/tripod is recommended.

Are we talking ƒ-12 lens? I would be looking for something down around ƒ-4 as ƒ12 would require ISOs up in the 200+ range to get a respectable shutter speed even in bright sunlight.

By "higher" f-stop I mean a smaller number (larger aperture). I would want at least f4 if possible for birding for sure.

By "higher" f-stop I mean a smaller number (larger aperture). I would want at least f4 if possible for birding for sure.

Common source of confusion as the higher the number the smaller the opening. Least confusing way is to refer to the range. Something like ƒ-4 to ƒ-32 as on my old Nikor 105, or ƒ-5.6 to ƒ-64 as on a 90mm Schneider/Super Angulon.

When the lens said ƒ-12, I had no idea whether they were referring to wide open or stopped all the way down.

Doh! Never mind that was referring to a 3D lens, meaning it probably has only the one ƒ-stop setting.

I tend to shoot within 60' and often closer and often in low light so that is more important than something out 200' away.

I'd probably carry a monopod but do need to shoot handheld most often and need both manual and a fast AF which attracted me to this model.

I've been using a 70mm-210mm on my Nikon D80 and I still have the need to get in closer,
My neighbour who is a photo buff suggested that I look for a 300mm -400mm lens.

Maybe I'll look for a 55mm-300mm, Would rather have the versatility,
Although it's still hard to avoid hard pincushioning with such a big lens.

Also to note,
The reason why I bought the Nikon D80 is because it can use a plethora of old lenses.
So buying more lenses for it can be fairly inexpensive on ebay or Henrys online store.

Best lens to buy after some searching appears to be the NIKON AF-S 28-300MM F3.5-5.6 G ED VR
But at $1,149.00 it ain't cheap.

Here's a review on the Nikon 28-300mm lens (http://mansurovs.com/nikon-28-300mm-vr-review)

See my reply to your other thread, one thing I would avoid is a camera with just an LCD as they can be pretty hard to see in bright sunlight.

For those unfamiliar with this system, there are no bright zooms at the moment -- all start at f4.5 and most are f5.6 by the time you zoom to the long end. There are a couple of constant f2.8 zooms on the horizon, but they will likely be $1K-plus.

To answer the question (though I still recommend against this body for birding): the Panny 45-175 is probably your best bet if you can afford it.

Niteshooter yeah I agree but I've sort of learned to let the camera capture then crop later which has some advantages shooting from the bike.
You might just have tipped me over to the G3 as I do miss a view finder and $550 all in new and current is decent.