MacBook Pro and Music

mose

I am sooooooo pissed!!!!!!

I have owned two - count em 2 Powerbooks - a Ti book 15 and this current MacBookPro. I needed em for work yep - had to have em BUT...and a BIG BUT!!!!


I have been fiddling with them for years trying to get the midi tracking to work... It jst wouldnt - in several different software packages...

I am also a working musician and work with a studio - their gear has been what I have been having to rely on for years... couldn't use mine at all until today.

Anyway I simply hit the wall I got fed up - I found a used G4 466 700 mg RAM

Dropped in a copy of Logic 7 and everything tracks ... like a freakin dream now on this old box.

For anyone out there even thinkin they can do any serious music on a 15 inch MacBook pro or any other Mac Portable - save yourself the work - can't be done.

Serious meaning actually "playing into it" not just loops (read MIDI)

For like 140 bucks I just finally after years got my studio set up. well that and 3 - 4 thousands spent on Macs and gear and time - well, that didn't work. And worse a waste of time.

any old Mac desktop with FW and a couple of bucks for old software - you too have a studio.

Why wouldn't someone just step up and say Hey these don't work. Oh and BTW everyone I talked to blamed everything else BUT the powerbooks... the midi interface the gear fW etc etc unbelievable

I am so pissed... anyway...

The MacBook pro is simply wrong for midi. Something wrong with the USB ports. They do not track... and it ain't just this machine I have had three that didnt

USB... Full stop - Thats where the midi interfaces go (I have three interfaces tried em all)

Anyway - with this desktop everything is bang on.

I am so mad....

I have spoken to every single person over the last few years - NO ONE KNOWS

Long and McQ ... Apple, KVR... MOTU...

Unbelievable

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Macaholic

Dunno what your problem has been but I've used MBPs with 2GB RAM, Logic, my Ozonic interface and an external FW drive for my sample library and everything works just perfectly. The type of work I typically do is sequenced-based, relying heavily on EXS24 and other instrument plug-ins -- very little loops... although I do use them as well when the work requires that type of thing.

I've had SCADS of tracks running, with sample palettes -- along with Logic and the OS itself -- certainly exceeding my physical RAM and it worked fine. BUT I have learned how to properly set Logic's and the EXS24's preferences to do so. It wasn't happy at first... but that was even before the MBP anyway.

The only issue I had with my pre-Santa Rosa MBP (I've had two MBPs) was that the it didn't like me daisy-chaining the Ozonic and my external drive on the MBP's one Firewire port. So, I had to connect the external via USB... which would indeed be slow off the mark at times. But I was happy to find that, with the Santa Rosa MBP, I could share them on the FW port without issue.

I also know a couple of other composers who do use MBPs with Logic without issue. I'm not disputing your particular experience, but the facts based on my experience is that the MBP -- and even the MB (screen size notwithstanding) -- are excellent options!

EDIT: You mentioned MOTU. Do you use Digital Performer? Has the transition to Universal Binary gone well for the program? According to this WIki entry DP only went UB a few months ago!

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vacuvox

ditto, Macaholic - well, not quite, but almost. Something I've learned about Logic is that everyone not only has a unique technical set-up but also unique needs and preferences. I have yet to find two people who use Logic in the same way.

I don't know why mose has experienced problems - but there was some mention of USB... and USB interfaces tend to have pretty bad latency. USB is ok for just MIDI - but if you're using the MIDI i/o on a USB audio interface and using the same interface for sound... big latency. Go firewire all the way and there should be no problems.

I have been using Logic for a long time and my experience has been good ever since the G3 Yosemite tower. Since then the capability of Apple towers and laptops has just grown and grown. I finally sold my dual G5 tower in September of 2007 and have been using only my MBP since. I love it. I use the system below to earn my living writing music (film, TV, theatre), recording on location and doing live playback for dance and theatre. Those are two 500GB drives. I back up everything to bare drives using a Wiebetech hotswap eSATA device. I use an external monitor in my studio or just use the laptop screen on remote. Also not pictured: a big weighted-action keyboard, mixer, speakers, firewire video D/A and a plasma screen for synchronized video. Next upgrade... Fireface 800.

MBP working for me!

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ok, back to lurk... er... work.

mose

try...

Vdrums...
D4....
QS6 & X5
pluss other stuff...

I have no probs except drums.

You cannot play into a MBP... Full stop. won't track. no matter how simple the pattern.

I use FW for audio and BFD - USD Edirol for MIDI

i can take any tune and works fine - but as a drummer - you simply can't play into a MBP... trust me.

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JSvo

vacuvox.... great rig you've got there! And glad to hear you're earning your living with it. Feel free to share some of your work if you feel like it.

mose, I feel your MBP pain, except for me it's hardware related as the fans went all rattly a year ago, and now the replacements are starting to act up too!

I'm not going to dismiss your issues, as obviously they're real and they annoy the hell out of you. However, your conclusion in your last post may be true for your particular setup, but there must be drummers out there that can make BFD work on their laptops.

I'm also a drummer, and I'm about to install BFD on my G5 to basically do what you're doing. But your situation intrigues me, so I think I'll install BFD on my MBP instead and see how that goes.

Maybe you can provide more details about your setup. Aren't you using the D4 to trigger BFD through midi, or are you attempting to get the audio from your modules into your MBP through your audio interface? What is your audio interface?

I can't imagine you'd have a problem if you were just triggering BFD through the Edirol. Or is that the problem? Not quite sure how you have everything rigged together, so it's hard to speculate on what may be going wrong.

Feel free to provide more details and maybe someone here can help.

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Jakub

vacuvox

Was BFD loaded onto the MBP's internal drive?

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ok, back to lurk... er... work.

mose

First as for BFD - nope always on a FW LaCie - BFD worked fine -0 although a little quiet always and needs to be tweaked - I do it in logic on a plug in - EQ, gain etc etc Mind you a ton of issues with Leopard but L08 solved all that

I also have customized all the BFD drum sets - as a pro drummer and someone who has worked in the drum biz for ever (I write for Modern Drummer) I like my sounds etc etc. BTW I built the first (or at least one of the first) electronic drums in 1978 with Fox Electronics - have been using electronic drums before Midi (analog pearls - still have em! They sound reeeeeaaaaal cooll- have done tours with them... real snare, pearl toms and kick - real cymbals - neat set up)

The issue with the MBP is playing on pads through the Vdrum (or previously through the D4)

Seems the USB - where any of my MIDI boxes went - would not track... as I said even the simplest passages...

I would play bump thwap bump thwap etc etc

It would come out bu.....pm thhhhhhw...ooops what was that you played? I tell ya it wasn'yt even close.

But with the old G4 I can play Zappa's Black Page and it tracks. I mean i could play the black page... that is if I could.

But I can play (LOL) I gave it a test and played a rudimental solo into the Logic with this new set up. perfect. On the money.

The MBP (I have had 2) do not work when playing in on a Vdrum set - read pads/cymbals/bass/hihat

Thanks for the posts - cool
I have a **** load of stuff written

hare are just some of the albums

Hara Music and Audio Productions, Recording Studio, Brampton Ontario

Tai Chi Music from The Silk Orchestra, new World Music CD by Pat Clemence

Pat Clemence Music Pages

t h e m o s e


I also have about 22 tunes we have pre-pro'd for a new album - but they ain't ready for public consumption yet

also work with 5 ensembles - always looking for gigs whether it is a band you are lookin' for or a session player or two

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zarquon

I saw this thread this morning and have come back a couple of times to check out the updates.
I too use LogicPro on a PowerBook and a MacPro. Although I am not a drummer, as an engineer I am fairly good at noticing timing problems.
I am a firm believer in USB (especially on notebooks) being a protocol for keyboards and mice, and not much else. USB is not designed for timing specific communication, and can be bogged down by other traffic. (I use a FW audio and MIDI interface)
My thinking is that on the MBP, there are other things using the USB bus that might be causing the issues, more than it being a MBP fault.
IIRC, the built in iSight, and the keyboard backlight and sensors all use the USB bus. and even though iChat might not be running, other apps including Logic) can address the camera.
Just a thought. But I would be very interested to know if you still have these problems with a FW-MIDI connection.
It would also be an interesting experiment to create a clean bootable external drive with only the os, logic and necessary files on it to see if there isn't some kind of corrupt plist file. (that is if you are like me and migrated your user to the new machine - I don't think I'll do that again )

Z.

mguertin

If you want to do serious midi work, ditch the edirol. You need something that can keep up with what you are doing ... this is why you can't play "into" your MBP, realtime information from things like hi-hat pedals are just way too much midi info for an edirol interface to keep up with. If it works with your desktop you just bought it's likely because your desktop is just ignoring a big part of all the realtime midi info that you're sending at it (which is a bad thing).

I use a MOTU MTP AV unit and have never had any problems tracking into any of the macs I've used it with, including several mac laptops over the last few years. On the other hand I choked out several M-audio midi interfaces, an edirol, and a Steinberger Midex unit on _any_ hardware I've tried them on when using midi drum trigggers as inputs.

Also worth noting, I use my MOTU MTP AV to capture realtime midi drums all the time on my powerbook G5 1.5ghz 17". Blame the outboard gear, not the machine ...

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mguertin

Also worth noting, you might have better luck if you try using something simpler for realtime audio monitoring (not BFD). Use the built-on vdrum sounds, or another external midi unit for the actual audio monitoring.

Use BFD for playback, but trying to do BFD for realtime playback is asking for trouble. I used to use Battery 2 for realtime monitoring of my drums on a windows based machine, with an RME audio interface and could get down to about 2.5ms latency (which is acceptable IMHO).

Hope this helps.

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